To be fair, he did suggest you “get” a book. Nothing about actually reading it.
Reading this thread, I’m having a Near Suicide Experience.
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
To be fair, he did suggest you “get” a book. Nothing about actually reading it.
Reading this thread, I’m having a Near Suicide Experience.
[/QUOTE]
Vinyl Turnip
I’m having a near despair experience. No matter how many times someone is cheated and lied to, they’ll still believe that the next guru or swami or mystical looking Indian con man is the real one and has all the answers. Reality is just too boring for some people.
Regards
Testy
From lekatt’s quoted anecdote:
Most of the time he was “technically” dead.
Some of the staff think he might have been semi-conscious.
In other words, we have conflicting testimony based on a remembered anecdote. We do not have timelines or actual records of his status throughout the entire episode. Perhaps he experienced an OBE, or perhaps some members of the ER staff, in the midst of scurrying about doing essential things to revive his body, have applied a bit of selective memory to the periods when they happened to have the liesure to be watching the patient vs the periods when they were actually tied up doing essential tasks and could not accurately attest to the exact state of the patient. The patient was there for over half an hour, more than enough time to have drifted in and out of consciousness at different moments and catch the names of the staff.
Again, I am not insisting nothing happened. I am pointing out that an anecdote does not provide the “scientific” evidence you want to claim for it.
[QUOTE=Testy]
Lekatt
I used to own dozens of books on subjects such as this. I trained and did the breathing and meditation and believed with all my heart. Then I graduated high school and realized that this wasn’t working for me and that the authors of the books were cons and frauds and that I had been nothing more than a sucker.
Since then, I’ve required a bit more than earnest personal testimony to be convinced.
Regards
Testy
[/QUOTE]
I am sorry you had such an experience. I meditate occasionally with good results, I am not looking to control my BP or HR. I just do it to relax.
[QUOTE=lekatt]
More good study material, the evidence mounts.
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/whoswho/vanLommel.htm
[/QUOTE]
So, you believe in morphic fields and the Akashic record, then, it looks like. Brain as receiver for “virtual photons”? O-kaaay.
[QUOTE=Testy]
Vinyl Turnip
I’m having a near despair experience. No matter how many times someone is cheated and lied to, they’ll still believe that the next guru or swami or mystical looking Indian con man is the real one and has all the answers. Reality is just too boring for some people.
Regards
Testy
[/QUOTE]
I think it depends on what one is looking for, true, no one has all the answers. If one is hoping that some holy man will have a magic cure, or give the ultimate answer, or be able to enlighten in a short time then disappointment is assured.
The best Guru is a teacher, and learning the lessons take time and effort. No one can do your learning for you, they can only point the way. I have been down this road many times with others, some do very well, and some don’t. It is the nature of physical life.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
So, you believe in morphic fields and the Akashic record, then, it looks like. Brain as receiver for “virtual photons”? O-kaaay.
[/QUOTE]
I am not sure, I do not necessarily believe every word of every link I post.
All words are symbols of other “things, emotions, thoughts, events, etc.” As only symbols they can never relay the full meaning of the items they stand for. One has to shift from literal thinking to conceptual thinking to better understand the printed word. Also the spoken word.
Noah Webster once remarked: “thoughts soar with the Eagles, while words can only plod along in pursuit.”
[QUOTE=lekatt]
I think it depends on what one is looking for, true, no one has all the answers. If one is hoping that some holy man will have a magic cure, or give the ultimate answer, or be able to enlighten in a short time then disappointment is assured.
The best Guru is a teacher, and learning the lessons take time and effort. No one can do your learning for you, they can only point the way. I have been down this road many times with others, some do very well, and some don’t. It is the nature of physical life.
[/QUOTE]
Lekatt
That may all be true but I’m afraid the various gurus and holy men will have to pass their cosmic wisdom on to someone with more time (and money) to waste than me. They’ll need to prove that they have something worthwhile to teach before I play the fool a second time.
Regards
Testy
[QUOTE=Testy]
Lekatt
That may all be true but I’m afraid the various gurus and holy men will have to pass their cosmic wisdom on to someone with more time (and money) to waste than me. They’ll need to prove that they have something worthwhile to teach before I play the fool a second time.
Regards
Testy
[/QUOTE]
OK, However you feel about it. Would you care to share what you expected to receive by consulting a guru? Don’t get me wrong, I have no doubt that there is a great difference in gurus. Just as there is in spiritual people. This world is not black or white, but many shades of many colors. Each person you meet will be unique.
[QUOTE=Testy]
Lekatt
I used to own dozens of books on subjects such as this. I trained and did the breathing and meditation and believed with all my heart. Then I graduated high school and realized that this wasn’t working for me and that the authors of the books were cons and frauds and that I had been nothing more than a sucker.
Since then, I’ve required a bit more than earnest personal testimony to be convinced.
Regards
Testy
[/QUOTE]
Man, I admire your dedication. All I did in high school was fight and party. I paid attention in shop classes but not much more. Still I’m not so much into books. I figure people write them to make money. The information you can glean on the internet being free is much better in that their is nothing to be gained by the author. As an aside, When my brother was training to be a paramedic, I lowered both my heart rate and blood pressure just to show him it could be done. So it was some mind over matter shit for sure.
[QUOTE=Omegaman]
Man, I admire your dedication. All I did in high school was fight and party. I paid attention in shop classes but not much more. Still I’m not so much into books. I figure people write them to make money. The information you can glean on the internet being free is much better in that their is nothing to be gained by the author. As an aside, When my brother was training to be a paramedic, I lowered both my heart rate and blood pressure just to show him it could be done. So it was some mind over matter shit for sure.
[/QUOTE]
Omegaman
Well, so did I, mostly. This was in the early '70s though so the ‘net wasn’t an option. I bought books by Robsang Lampa and Carlos Castenada and many others. It turns out that ol’ Tuesday Robsang was a British crook or lunatic, I never did figure out which, and Castenada was just a plain old con man. Yours truly was just plain dumb. I ought to have known that stuff was all crap. That put a grinding halt to my “spiritual quest” and really poisoned my attitude toward others doing this kind of thing. They seem to break down into groups that have been fooled and other groups that are fooling themselves.
Listening to group of these people reminds me of listening to a couple of guys that have just smoked some oregano and are desperately trying to convince each other that it’s actually good stuff and they haven’t been ripped-off. S
Regards
Testy
[QUOTE=lekatt]
I am not sure, I do not necessarily believe every word of every link I post.
[/QUOTE]
Alrighty, then. If you’d been upfront about* that *before posting so many links, I think people would be more sure about how much credence to give them.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
Alrighty, then. If you’d been upfront about* that *before posting so many links, I think people would be more sure about how much credence to give them.
[/QUOTE]
The credence you give anything should be your own, if you can’t trust yourself, who can you trust? I just keep on reading and learning until I feel I have the straight dope. 
[QUOTE=Testy]
Omegaman
Well, so did I, mostly. This was in the early '70s though so the ‘net wasn’t an option. I bought books by Robsang Lampa and Carlos Castenada and many others. It turns out that ol’ Tuesday Robsang was a British crook or lunatic, I never did figure out which, and Castenada was just a plain old con man. Yours truly was just plain dumb. I ought to have known that stuff was all crap. That put a grinding halt to my “spiritual quest” and really poisoned my attitude toward others doing this kind of thing. They seem to break down into groups that have been fooled and other groups that are fooling themselves.
Listening to group of these people reminds me of listening to a couple of guys that have just smoked some oregano and are desperately trying to convince each other that it’s actually good stuff and they haven’t been ripped-off. S
Regards
Testy
[/QUOTE]
For me it was in the late 70’s when I encountered and read all those books, the differences were that I remember not purchasing the books, but borrowing them from relatives and the library. And I saw Lobsang Rampa (the correct spelling) as very interesting at the beginning, (and UFO’s and lost technology and civilizations) but then I got better when I began to check the real history behind those lunatics:
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Cite?
[/QUOTE]
It was many years ago on TV and so I can not verify it, but it was witnessed by many people skeptics included.
You can believe it or not, I know what I saw, there were no tricks involved.
Monavis
[QUOTE=Testy]
Monavis
That’s interesting about the swamis but I don’t consider dropping your pulse and BP all that big a deal. Nor do I believe it takes years of training to learn this. Heck, I’ve done it while playing with a drug-store monitor.
OTOH, I’d like to see such things verified. Instead of burying the old boy, why not just shove a plastic bag over his head, seal it well around his neck, and wait for a few minutes? I’d think that a test like that would be much more believable and less open to trickery.
I’d also put serious money that the guy wouldn’t last more than a few minutes before he tore his way out of the bag.
Regards
Testy
[/QUOTE]
It would be interesting to see if it worked with a plastic bag, but it would have to be placed after he went into his slower animated state. At the time I saw it there wasn’t many plastic bags around that I know of, I believe it was in the early 50’s.
Monavis
[QUOTE=monavis]
It was many years ago on TV and so I can not verify it, but it was witnessed by many people skeptics included.
You can believe it or not, I know what I saw, there were no tricks involved.
Monavis
[/QUOTE]
Could you at least remember which skeptics saw it so that I could do some research? The fact that it was on television many years ago is not really evidence of anything other than that a television executive was looking for a hook to bring in viewers. How could you possibly know there were no tricks involved?
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Could you at least remember which skeptics saw it so that I could do some research? The fact that it was on television many years ago is not really evidence of anything other than that a television executive was looking for a hook to bring in viewers. How could you possibly know there were no tricks involved?
[/QUOTE]
I wish I could remember the skeptics names but they were not given. however the machines that recorded blood pressure and heart rate were monitored(with the one on the operating table), perhaps you are right that the machines were faked I wish I could remember what station they were on as there were not many stations yet in those days and it was before color TV. And sadly there are pople who scam us, many more nowdays than years back.
Monavis
[QUOTE=monavis]
I wish I could remember the skeptics names but they were not given. however the machines that recorded blood pressure and heart rate were monitored(with the one on the operating table), perhaps you are right that the machines were faked I wish I could remember what station they were on as there were not many stations yet in those days and it was before color TV. And sadly there are pople who scam us, many more nowdays than years back.
Monavis
[/QUOTE]
The first link below, scan down a bit, might be what you are looking for. The second link is just some general phenomenon by Yogus.
http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/fringe/9601/01-26/
I have worked with a few India people who came over here to work in computer and medical jobs. They were highly intelligent and held doctor degrees. I asked about the Yogas and they had seen many of the feats done by Yogus believing them completely. I see no reason to doubt them, since my experience it is easy for me to understand how the body can be controlled by the mind. There is probable some exaggeration, but it is something I neither believe nor disbelieve, not necessary to call them names without further knowledge.
It is sad our schools teach skepticism. Events of life should not be met neither with skepticism nor with belief until one has experienced it personally. The spread of skepticism IMHO has caused the increase mental problems of depression, anxiety, stress, and suicides we see in our society today.
[QUOTE=lekatt]
It is sad our schools teach skepticism. Events of life should not be met neither with skepticism nor with belief until one has experienced it personally. The spread of skepticism IMHO has caused the increase mental problems of depression, anxiety, stress, and suicides we see in our society today.
[/QUOTE]
There are so many things wrong with this, I don’t know where to start.
Since when have schools been teaching skepticism? If anything schools should be teaching more classes in critical thinking.
I would love to see some evidence for an increase in skepticism in society and it leading to an increase in mental problems.