Scientists recreate Out-of-Body Experience

Great Debates
81

[QUOTE=Monty]
No, I just expected you to post yet more lies on a subject about which you have zero actual knowledge and in such posting to twist it into your favorite obsession. It certainly did not take any sense of the article misrepresenting the truth–mainly because the article did not do that. You did, and you continue to do so.
[/QUOTE]

For the third time I will explain, but this is the last time.

The headline read: “Out-of-body experience recreated.”
“Experts have found a way to trigger an out-of-body experience in volunteers.”

Now let me repeat that so it can be read again:

The headline read: “Out-of-body experience recreated.”
“Experts have found a way to trigger an out-of-body experience in volunteers.”

So now I ask myself if any of the volunteers actually had an out of body experience triggered by this virtual reality apparatus, and the answer is no, nein, nada, no one had an actual out of body experience.

Well, since no one had an out of body experience while the headline indicated that an “Experts have found a way to trigger an out-of-body experience in volunteers” then the headline is false or the pseudo research is false. Pretty easy stuff to understand. I can do the same thing with mirrors.

And there you have it for the third time. If you would really like to know what out of body experiences are. Don’t look here for this is the outcome of the article.

This what I said would happen and it did. So for many months people will be thinking science has triggered out of body experiences, therefor disproving those ignortant people who believe we are spiritual.

I won’t post any real sites about real out of body experiences, I know you are not interested.

Ok, I am finished with my post, and at the Beep, you and your friends may post the usual and customary insults. . . . . . . . .Beeeeeeeep.

82

At the Beep, you proved that you are dishonest. You also have proved that you still have absolutely no idea what Science is or how it’s done.

83

[QUOTE=kangaroo_in_black]
If by magic, you mean something that occurs that is outside our current understanding. Then yes, perhaps it is magic.
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No, it’s magic because you are trying to use supernatural means to affect the world. It’s no different than any other invocation of imaginary spirits. And there’s no evidence that anything happens at all, “out of our understanding” or not.

[QUOTE=kangaroo_in_black]
The act of praying also tends to give the person praying less to worry about. And I don’t see that in of itself a bad thing.
[/quote]
It diverts them from doing something that might actually help.

[QUOTE=kangaroo_in_black]
The only oddity is sometimes things that are prayed for don’t occur, and sometimes they do. It’s not a definite, so it could just be coincidence when they do happen. Or maybe not, I just don’t know. I think the jury is out on that one for a while, but research like this out of body experience, may eventually get us there.
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The “jury is out” only for people foolish enough to be religious, and not even all of them. There’s simply no reason to believe that it’s anything but a meaningless ritual.

[QUOTE=kangaroo_in_black]
It basically says that it is people who murder, kill, and otherwise take advantage of other people. Claiming that group A does these things, and implying that group B would not in similar circumstances is just plain wrong. Both groups are made up of people, and since they have their own free will, there are those who will take advantage of others regardless of which group they are in.
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Garbage. People kill, and they do stupid things because their religion demands it or excuses it. It creates divisions where none exist, excuses evil like nothing else, demands irrational behavior & the denial of reality, and creates motivation for atrocities and tyranny that wouldn’t exist without it. It twists and warps people into monsters and lunatics.

It’s amusing, and disgusting how people love to claim that religion motivates people to do good things, but go into complete denial about it causing bad things. It doesn’t matter if there’s no other reason for those bad things, or if the people doing them say they are doing it for religion. Somehow, it’s never religion’s fault. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=lekatt]
After reading your posts for quite awhile, it seems that you have gathered together the acts of criminals and blame them on the whole of religion.
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It’s the nature of religion to produce insane and barbaric behavior. Decent, rational behavior requires secularism, as a rule.

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Any more than gathering the criminal acts of those who are scientists and blaming them on the whole of science.
[/quote]
Science doesn’t demand irrational behavior or the denial of reality; religion does. Nor does science demand that people go out and do things to other people and themselves. Science is a technique for discovering facts, and can’t motivate people to do things the way religion does. Science can be misused by people with flawed characters or bad judgement; religion gives people flawed characters and judgement. It’s not the same at all; as opposites, you can’t compare science and religion very much.

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Your average Christian wouldn’t hurt a fly, I think what you believe is not correct.
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They hurt people all the time and always have. It’s a malignant and crazy belief system, even worse than most religions. Right up there with Communism and Nazism.

84

[QUOTE=lekatt]
So now I ask myself if any of the volunteers actually had an out of body experience triggered by this virtual reality apparatus, and the answer is no, nein, nada, no one had an actual out of body experience.
[/QUOTE]
You have provided no evidence that this is true. You have no idea what the subjects of the research actually excperienced. Assigning your own values to things without evidence is nothing more than personal projection. Insisting that your personal beliefs have some sort of absolute weight (or should be given any more value than the expressed opinions on favorite foods) places you in in the Der Trihs camp of self-expression (or allows him to join you).

85

[QUOTE=Monty]
At the Beep, you proved that you are d…
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<Mechanical voice> We’re sorry, the in box is full.

86

[QUOTE=tomndebb]
You have provided no evidence that this is true. You have no idea what the subjects of the research actually excperienced. Assigning your own values to things without evidence is nothing more than personal projection. Insisting that your personal beliefs have some sort of absolute weight (or should be given any more value than the expressed opinions on favorite foods) places you in in the Der Trihs camp of self-expression (or allows him to join you).
[/QUOTE]

I keep the prayer to St. Jude in my billfold, yes, really, for just such occasions.

87

[QUOTE=lekatt]

The headline read: “Out-of-body experience recreated.”
“Experts have found a way to trigger an out-of-body experience in volunteers.”

So now I ask myself if any of the volunteers actually had an out of body experience triggered by this virtual reality apparatus, and the answer is no, nein, nada, no one had an actual out of body experience.

[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry, but that is an outright lie. They experienced the virtual body as their own, and experienced stimulation on only the virtual body as though it was on their own. What’s not an OBE in that?

88

[QUOTE=MrDibble]
I’m sorry, but that is an outright lie. They experienced the virtual body as their own, and experienced stimulation on only the virtual body as though it was on their own. What’s not an OBE in that?
[/QUOTE]

Everything, but if you don’t know what a real OBE is, I guess most anything would do.

89

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Everything, but if you don’t know what a real OBE is, I guess most anything would do.
[/QUOTE]
You mean, like dreaming you had an OBE after self-diagnosing that you had almost died? Gotta agree with you there.

90

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I keep the prayer to St. Jude in my billfold, yes, really, for just such occasions.
[/QUOTE]

Lekatt

Something odd here. On the one hand you claim that Christians don’t believe in magic. OTOH, you say you carry a magic ritual written down on a paper in your wallet.

Testy

91

[QUOTE=MrDibble]
I’m sorry, but that is an outright lie. They experienced the virtual body as their own, and experienced stimulation on only the virtual body as though it was on their own. What’s not an OBE in that?
[/QUOTE]

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychiatryNews/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201802030&cid=BreakingNews

In real OBEs you do feel disembodiment and a change in visuospatial perspective.

92

[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
You mean, like dreaming you had an OBE after self-diagnosing that you had almost died? Gotta agree with you there.
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St. Jude again.

93

[QUOTE=Testy]
Lekatt

Something odd here. On the one hand you claim that Christians don’t believe in magic. OTOH, you say you carry a magic ritual written down on a paper in your wallet.

Testy
[/QUOTE]

You are very confused. I am not a Christian, and it is true Christians don’t believe in magic. Magic is what an illusionist does on stage.

Christians do believe in prayer, so do I. Perhaps if you gain more knowledge of the subject you won’t be so confused.
Love

94

So, you mouth a quick incantation and expect a supernatural result?

How is that not magic?

95

[QUOTE=lekatt]
You are very confused. I am not a Christian, and it is true Christians don’t believe in magic. Magic is what an illusionist does on stage.

Christians do believe in prayer, so do I. Perhaps if you gain more knowledge of the subject you won’t be so confused.
Love
[/QUOTE]

You are splitting hairs. Magic, Magick, or religion through and intercessery figure, or direct prayer is exactly the same from an anthropological standpoint. You are attempting to influence the physical world through supernatural means. You can call it whatever you like but the root cause and effect relationship is identical.

96

[QUOTE=lekatt]

In real OBEs you do feel disembodiment and a change in visuospatial perspective.
[/QUOTE]

Like “the sensation seemed to be caused by the pen on their virtual back, rather than their real back, making them feel as if the virtual body was their own rather than a hologram”? Or like " the volunteers overshot the target, returning nearer to the position of their “virtual self”"?

That kind of disembodiment? That kind of change in “visuospatial perspective”?

You have failed to explain what the difference is between the sensations described, and your “real” OBE.

97

[QUOTE=MrDibble]
Like “the sensation seemed to be caused by the pen on their virtual back, rather than their real back, making them feel as if the virtual body was their own rather than a hologram”? Or like " the volunteers overshot the target, returning nearer to the position of their “virtual self”"?

That kind of disembodiment? That kind of change in “visuospatial perspective”?

You have failed to explain what the difference is between the sensations described, and your “real” OBE.
[/QUOTE]

You could look this up on the Internet, there are plenty OBE sites.

Now we will talk about the real OBE.

When you have an out of body experience, you are usually unconscious, but floating out of your body will wake you up rather quickly. You feel wonderful, light and peaceful, you can move around by thought and see your body down below you. You can also see the people and things in the room, and hear conversations. It is possible to go into adjoining rooms or through the ceiling. You know you are out of your body, no one needs to tell you. Then when you return to your body a feeling of heaviness returns, if you are sick or injuried the pain will return. There will never be any doubt in your mind about the separation of consciousness and body. This would be a very quick, simple OBE, some of them are very much more involved. Read some near death experiences, because they always start with an OBE.

98

[QUOTE=ForumBot]
So, you mouth a quick incantation and expect a supernatural result?

How is that not magic?
[/QUOTE]

You may think you have described prayer, but you have not.

99

And your inability to defend your beliefs in any way more meaningful than “nah uh” means you don’t have a damn clue what you’re talking about.

100

[QUOTE=Acid Lamp]
You are splitting hairs. Magic, Magick, or religion through and intercessery figure, or direct prayer is exactly the same from an anthropological standpoint. You are attempting to influence the physical world through supernatural means. You can call it whatever you like but the root cause and effect relationship is identical.
[/QUOTE]

If you know how to pray, and many don’t, you post may seem accurate. It is not even close for me.

Understand that the spirit world, God, Jesus, Holy Ghost, and whomever you are accustomed to pray to will not do things for you, things you need to do for yourself. Neither will they give you fame, fortune, or positions of authority, these things are meaningless to spirit.

So now we begin to pray, we give thanks for what we have first, then we ask for divine guidance, then we pray for others who are sick that they may be comforted, for those who need love, and divine guidance that they may be consoled, for the world that peace and love be established. If we have something personal to pray for we ask for a way, a path of understanding we can follow to obtain our personal item.

It does work, and works very well. Not because God, etc., hears and answers, He was aware of our needs before we began to pray. But because we have focused our thoughts on love and understanding. What you believe and your thoughts are very important to your well-being and enjoyment of life.

Now you have been lied to about religion and spirituality, not intentionally, but because your “teachers” don’t know what they are talking about. Suggest you learn on your own, it is really the only path to truth.