[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
When you ask a question, some people might actually try to give you an answer. (Having bumped into your version of logic before, I’ll admit I should have known better.) Whether I approve of the phenomenon, I understand how it happens, given the legal environment. If you can’t accept that a legal environment that penalizes retailers for selling to people under the age of 18 is going to encourage this sort of idiocy, go back to kindergarten. Or, horrors of horrors, stop posting stupid questions on an internet message board, and start lobbying your legislators, or even try running for office yourself.
Since I’m sure that’s far too much effort, I’ll suggest that if you want to argue the idiocy of such laws get off your clueless horse and make a reasoned argument. If you’re too special to actually involve yourself in making that kind of mental effort, shut up.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
Brilliant! Why didn’t anyone think of this? :rolleyes:
So, how do you distinguish between an actual 25-year-old and a 17-year-old who looks 25 without requesting ID?
[/QUOTE]
The point is, WHO FUCKING CARES? Why are perfectly innocent 25 yr olds being asked to show “papers” for anything? It’s just a freaking cigarette, get over it.
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
The point is, WHO FUCKING CARES?
[/QUOTE]
The stores care. Not because they are taking some moral stance against teen smoking; if it were legal, they’d be happy to sell them to anyone. However, as it stands, the law says they cannot sell them to those under 18. And if they do, and are caught, there are stiff penalties which can include being fired. Should clerks and store management ignore the law and risk losing their jobs rather than inconvenience a few people?
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
Why are perfectly innocent 25 yr olds being asked to show “papers” for anything?
[/QUOTE]
And I’ll ask again: how is one supposed to know if someone is actually 25 or not unless they see an ID?
It’s a freaking joint, it’s a freaking kilo, it’s freaking taxes, it’s a freaking dead body, get over it.
Some things are regulated by law. If you don’t like that, take it up with someone who gives a damn what you think. If US laws are too regulatory for you, then move to another country. Please.
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
The point is, WHO FUCKING CARES? Why are perfectly innocent 25 yr olds being asked to show “papers” for anything? It’s just a freaking cigarette, get over it.
[/QUOTE]
To prove that they are, in fact, 25. People can look vastly different ages from what they are. The clerk doesn’t know the age of the person until they card them. What if said 25-year-old happens to look 18? I can still pass for that young at 22. Does the 25-year-old get denied something he is legally allowed to purchase just because s/he happens to look younger than s/he actually is?
Unless you think that the store should sell cigarettes to anyone who asks, which is another issue entirely.
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler]
Some things are regulated by law. If you don’t like that, take it up with someone who gives a damn what you think. If US laws are too regulatory for you, then move to another country. Please.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, it’s quite legitimate to argue that because a law cannot be effectively enforced without trampling all over the rights of the innocent, the law should be done away with. Please note, Carol Stream, that you do not get credit for making this reasonable argument, having elected to make sheep noises instead.
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler]
It’s a freaking joint, it’s a freaking kilo, it’s freaking taxes, it’s a freaking dead body, get over it.
Some things are regulated by law. If you don’t like that, take it up with someone who gives a damn what you think. If US laws are too regulatory for you, then move to another country. Please.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I agree with this entirely. Carol, there are plenty of places where the people wish they could have such a “nanny state” (manifesting itself, in this case, in private enterprise, but I’m sure that doesn’t bother you) as the U.S.
[QUOTE=WF Tomba]
Actually, it’s quite legitimate to argue that because a law cannot be effectively enforced without trampling all over the rights of the innocent, the law should be done away with.
[/QUOTE]
What right is being trampled by refusing to sell an age-restricted product to someone without ID or who refuses to present one? As far as I’m aware, the Constitution doesn’t give you the right to have beer and cigarettes.
[QUOTE=WF Tomba]
Actually, it’s quite legitimate to argue that because a law cannot be effectively enforced without trampling all over the rights of the innocent, the law should be done away with. Please note, Carol Stream, that you do not get credit for making this reasonable argument, having elected to make sheep noises instead.
[/QUOTE]
But do American citizens have the right not to be required to produce ID when purchasing anything?
[QUOTE=WF Tomba]
Actually, it’s quite legitimate to argue that because a law cannot be effectively enforced without trampling all over the rights of the innocent, the law should be done away with. Please note, Carol Stream, that you do not get credit for making this reasonable argument, having elected to make sheep noises instead.
[/QUOTE]
My point was that one does not get to ignore a law on the basis of the inconsequentiality of breaking it.
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
What right is being trampled by refusing to sell an age-restricted product to someone without ID or who refuses to present one? As far as I’m aware, the Constitution doesn’t give you the right to have beer and cigarettes.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t really think anyone’s rights are being trampled on here. I was just suggesting the sort of tack that might be taken by one side in this argument if that side had any interest in being enlightening rather than just annoying.
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
I really don’t care, when they are infringing on everybody else to do so.
[/QUOTE]
Nobody is being “infringed.” Stores have the right to ask for ID for certain purchase. You have the right to refuse to show it to them. And they have a right to refuse the sale.
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
I really don’t care, when they are infringing on everybody else to do so.
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, your opinion was quite callously disregarded when the laws regulating tobacco sales and the policies of stores regarding said sales were introduced. I suggest you direct your whining at them.
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
I really don’t care, when they are infringing on everybody else to do so.
[/QUOTE]
They are not ‘infringing’ on anyone. If a person wants to buy beer or tobacco, they have the choice to either show their ID or not buy the product. If they choose not to show ID, the store has the choice to either risk fines (at the minimum) or refuse the sale. We’re not talking about fucking necessities here, the customer does not by any means need to buy the product in question, so they can choose to either play by the rules, or not play at all.
And that’s about all I’m going to say, as by this point it’s clear that Carol Stream is as dense as a brick, complete with the empty space in the middle.