Screw You, Washington State Department of Licensing!

Okay, I didn’t want to make this a R vs. D issue, even though I was raised as a Republican. My own political positions have changed drastically over the last 20-odd years and I’ve become much more liberal in many ways, but I think of myself as more Libertarian than Democrat, and I still dislike enough of the Democrat platform that I usually end up voting Republican for state races when there isn’t a Libertarian option. I’ve sometimes voted for a Democrat over a Republican when I think the Dem in that particular race is a better candidate.

That said, this “fee” thing actually started in 1999. A fellow named Tim Eyman (a Republican) got tired of having to pay hundreds of dollars in annual licensing fees on his SUVs and fancy cars. He started an Initiative to change vehicle licensing fees to a flat $30 per vehicle/year. He succeeded in getting it onto the ballot, and voters approved it. It was later declared unconstitutional, but the legislature magnanimously decided to implement the $30 license tabs anyway. The “unconstitutional” part of the initiative was probably that part that also required voter approval of all tax increases.

The problems with the $30 license fee later became apparent. It used to be that the annual license fee was based on the age and value of the vehicle. So sure, a new, expensive vehicle cost a lot to license. But the fee went down every year. Lower-income people with old, cheap cars paid proportionally lower licensing fees. I think the last car I owned prior to this cost me something like $16/year, and that was it. The licensing fee itself was the entire cost of renewing my tags. Under the new law, you paid $30 regardless of the age and value of the car. Still, not too bad.

The other problem, though, was bigger. License fees were what funded a crapload of transportation-related things in Washington, including public transportation/mass transit. My local multi-county region had, in 1991, implemented a public bus system that was completely free to ride, and it was very successful. When this bill passed, the state gutted their funding and the system was forced to implement a fare structure to keep operating.

And so, over the years, the state has continued to find creative new ways to find revenue to pay for everything, and instead of taxes they keep coming up with new “fees”. Car license tabs still cost a flat $30/year … but now there’s a processing fee and a few other fees added on. The result is that, even if my car is 20 years old and worth maybe $400, annual licensing fees are going to run me nearly $200, the same that the next guy pays for his 2-year-old Escalade. They’ve also changed how licensing fees are paid when a used car changes hands. It used to be that, if you bought a used car from another person, or if they gifted it to you, you would keep the existing plates/tabs and simply renew them when they came due. Oh no, not now. Now when you acquire a used car, they issue brand new plates and you pay the annual licensing fee right now. Even if the previous owner renewed the tabs last month.

Oh, and let’s not forget that you now have to pay to replace the physical license plates every seven years. The excuse for this is that the plates have a reflective coating that wears out after seven years, and they need to have a functioning coating so that law enforcement can read the plates at night. Or at least that’s how they explained it to my retired dad, who informed them that he was in the Washington State Patrol for 36 years and never had any trouble at all reading license plates at night before the introduction of the reflective coating. It’s just another money grab.

Ah, tit for tat, eh?

OK - I will condemn someone for making a jab about Republicans trying to stop Democrats from voting. Shame on that guy! Bad Musicat! Doesn’t he know it is minorities and poor folks they are trying to stop from voting? I assume some of them even vote for Republicans.

Better?

It’s nice to not have the paperwork, but we have to pay in other ways. We have at least a 10% sales tax around Seattle, ever-rising car license tabs which we just stupidly voted to jack up exponentially for light rail*, and skyrocketing property taxes (thanks Amazon).

*I’m all for light rail, but Sound Transit is corrupt and I don’t trust them at all.

Wish we’d know about that earlier. Unfortunately, my wife hadn’t noticed that her ID had expired a couple months ago (the state failed to mail a reminder, which I have seen happen before), and she needed a valid ID right now in order to get her financial aid money for her classes that start next Monday.

No. Your lack of sincerity shines through. It’s obvious that you’re perfectly sanguine with jabs at Republicans and mildly offended at jabs at Democrats.

It’s OK. Own it. It’s not like this attitude will earn you any reproachful glances here.

This is the pit, isn’t it? I didn’t know I had to be all serious here. Sorry, don’t mean to offend you. I know I need to tread lightly around some folks. :smiley:

I’m sure you pay in other ways. Fees for services included. I have to pay state income taxes AND fees in the comparable range. Take that! :slight_smile:

That’s because there were no jabs at Republicans. There was a jab at Voter ID laws–a concept 100% relevant to the topic. Only you actually brought up Republicans and Democrats.

But, of course, since the guy who crows about integrity the most doesn’t have it, I don’t expect you to acknowledge that.

The fact that you claim integrity but don’t practice it is the reason I think of you as worse that the Dopers who don’t pretend. I’ve repeatedly pointed out your underhanded tactics, and your response was to put me on ignore because I wouldn’t defend you because you refuse to change them.

How are voter ID laws “100% relevant” to the topic of Washington state ID costs when Washington state doesn’t have voter ID laws?

It was even pointed out that Washington votes strictly by mail, so there’s nobody to check IDs anyway.

I’m not sure if it was or wasn’t a jab at Republicans, but it was sure as hell nowhere near relevant.

No, it isn’t always about the Doctor and Sarah. It’s always about Bricker and the Board’s alleged liberal bias.

Maybe gun control is the problem. If the DMV were an ‘open carry allowed’ zone, the lazy gummint workers might be motivated to inform angry customers about the options for reduced fees.

I know that Washington is a state that has been skating by on federal waivers from the compliance with the Real ID requirements, and those waivers are supposed to run out at some point. I’ve mostly tried to ignore the whole thing for as long as possible, but I know it means I’m going to have to get a new DL at some point, or alternatively start always carrying my passport for flights, even if they’re only domestic. Anyway, is it possible the fee increase is related to coming into compliance with Real ID?

Also, to the person above complaining about their property taxes going up because of Amazon: no, that’s not how it works in Washington. The total amount that all your overlapping governments (state, city, county, water district, fire district, school district, transportation district, etc) charge in property tax are fixed in total dollars, and your property tax rate is calculated using the fraction of the total property value in that district that your property represents. If all property values in the relevant district double, everyone’s rate halves and total amount paid stays constant. If your property increases by more than the weighted average property value in the district as a whole, sure you could see an increase, but such changes are typically minor unless you’ve added major improvements to your property. Any increase in property taxes you’re seeing are due to voter-approved incremental programs / levies in those districts.

I have no dog in this fight, but I’d love to see Bricker’s response to this.

Counselor ?

ETA: apologies if circumvention of “Ignore” is improper. Is it?

They should print the expiration date on the card or something. That’s a shame.

I’m not Bricker, but I could see how

could be considered a jab at the opposing party.

At the very least, it renders the “Only you actually brought up Republicans and Democrats” inaccurate, but, as I posted above, that’s the least of the problems with that particular post.

<Snipped>
This change of requiring a new plate when you purchase a car, whether new or used, replaces the requirement to get new plates every seven years. They made this change because people buy cars on an average of every five years, so they get more revenue with new plate purchase at each car transaction than replacing plates every seven years.

No income tax here, 8 years is $42.25 ($5.28/year). Previously it was only $23.25 for 4 years, I kinda got screwed in that deal and have to do it again because I was born in a odd year. So the Real ID didn’t appear to increase the price, it’s just for a longer term so it looks larger. Non-DL cards are $22.25.

On the other hand, Arizona’s license (and they’re the state of Arpaio!) can be as cheap as 53 cents a year, if you get it at 18 and it expires at 65.

You do realize that states/counties have other means of collecting tax than sales and income taxes, including property tax and corporate taxes, right?

WA taxes still seem a little crazy to me, particularly on alcohol, and Seattle seems to love taxes, even by California standards.

Despite all the bickering above, I want to point out something else: why does an ID expire at all? Sure, a driver must demonstrate competency every x years (except in Arizona, as far as I understand). But what sense is there in a proof of identification expiring by a day, week, or even 10 years? Maybe after a certain age, they should last forever.

I don’t know about your state, but in mine the ID contains your address. A lot of people move within a 10 year period.

You’re not required to get it changed when you move?

I think it’s even simpler than that–the photos are an integral part of the ID. People don’t tend to look the same after 10 or so years.

By having an expiration date, it ensures that photos are at least somewhat accurate.

I believe it’s the same reason that minors’ passports expire sooner than adult passports–minors will change a lot more in a shorter period than adults will.

After a certain age, they do last forever.

That age varies person to person, but with a 10 year expiry date, it’s generally between 60 and 90.