Yeah, but I was drinking Old Style ironically.
Yes, but were you drinking Red Stripe ironically at the NYC SDMB meeting? Or how bout the “whatever’s available” in the pitcher at Dempsey’s later?
So what you’re saying is that it’s OK to drink a cocktail with ice in it, as long as you don’t use a cocktail glass?
I tell ya, these arcane rules are enough to drive a man to drink.
I know the difference between what I call a Martini glass (which I guess is properly called a cocktail glass), an old-fashioned and a double old-fashioned.
So for a cocktail, I should use a Martini glass; for a mixed drink, I can use the old-fashioned or the double old-fashioned glass, depending on the quantity of mixed drink served; except that when a cocktail with ice is served, I need to put it in an old-fashioned glass becuase it would be uncouth to serve it in the cocktail glass. Brandy glasses are used only for brandy.
If I make a screw-driver with only vodka and a very small amount of fresh-squeezed orange juice, and take a lot of time, trouble and perspiration when I’m making it, then I can call it a cocktail.
If I make a screw-driver with a lot of orange juice in it (i.e. more OJ than vodka), and the whole drink creating time takes me five seconds, then it becomes a mixed drink.
(beaming) I think I’ve got it! Where’s my gold star?
Actually, mixed drinks are usually served in bigger glasses than an old-fashioned, in my experience; usually a highball glass. However, you do sometimes see them in an old fashioned, although the amount of alcohol in the drink is much less than in a cocktail served on the rocks.
Well, you can put cognac in there, too, in a pinch (if no cognac glasses are on hand). Or a single malt, or occasionally very good tequila. It depends on whether the spirit you are putting in there will benefit from the brandy glass’ “bowl”.
Pretty much, although vodka is for pussies. :b Incidentally, if you make that drink with gin instead of vodka and add a little orange-flower water, you’ve made the Orange Blossom, the Screwdriver’s ancestor. Make it with a touch of Cointreau and you have an Orange Bloom, the predecessor of the Orange Blossom.
Personally, I don’t see that ANY of you are in a position to mock each other’s tastes in drinks… Martinis? Manhattans? Bleh. You want a REAL drink, try a Beaumont Suicide: Equal parts lukewarm Mr Pibb, Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, Mountain Dew and 7up, served in a 16 oz paper cup, or an Atomic Suicide, which is the same thing but with an Atomic Fireball dissolved in it. 
“There are only two things that are infinite: The Universe, and human stupidity-- and I’m not sure about the Universe”
–A. Einstein
[quote]
Originally posted by Gaudere:
**
AND, if you leave OUT the orange-flower water (like you’ve GOT orange-flower water) and replace it with a touch of dry vermouth, you’ve got yourself a Bronx. Isn’t this fun? Don’t you wish you were a bartender?
And, while I agree that vodka is for pussies, I feel constrained to mention that Cognac IS brandy*. Some say the FINEST brandy, although I prefer Armangac.
- any spirit distilled from fruit, although when we use the word “brandy” without a qualifier we’re speaking of a wine or grape distillate.
Leave out the vermouth and add Campari, and you have a Meiner. Keep the vodka and OJ, add sweet vermouth and you have a Petit Zinc (sometimes a dash of lemon juice is added, too).
Nitpicker. 
You’re right. I just tend to assume people are talking about Christian Bros., et al when they say brandy; if they mean Cognac or Calvados they usually specify.
Vodka is for pussies?
Yeah, go tell that to a couple of Russian WWII veterans, and they’ll wipe the floor with your face.
Oh, straight up it’s not that weenie (although I have to wonder about a drink that does its damndest to taste like nothing); if you keep it in the freezer it gains an intruiging viscousness. However, in a cocktail or mixed drink its primary role seems to be to provide an alcohol buzz for people too wimpy to handle the taste of whiskey or gin. You may as well just drink the mixers. The fact that it is a favorite of frat boys trying to get girls drunk and into bed doesn’t help it’s rep either. Alas, vodka is so popular now you often have to specify “a gin martini” or “a gin gimlet”, lest you get a drink that tastes solely of vermouth or Rose’s lime.
And what’s wrong with Christian Bros.? Try it with an Old Style chaser!
I’d try to come up with a name for THAT intriguing cocktail, but there are a couple of white-haired guys out here who look like Sig Rumann who’re waiting to have a word with me.
Ok, well, I’m gonna join the rank of the wimps and pussies and mention that my snifters often contain straight amaretto.
And I wanna know where Ike got the idea that there is ANY ‘swelegant’ hotel in Toledo. Toledo. Toledo. Say that a few times, then try to imagine a ‘swelegant’ anything. 
Heck, what do you think I make my brandy Manhattans with? As inexpensive brandies go, it’s pretty good. I’ve had a lot more expensive brandies that tasted like crap. If I was drinking the brandy neat, I’d probably go for something a little better, but Christian Bros. is a perfectly acceptable mixer, IMHO.
Ok, Ike and Gaudere, let’s see if I learned anything. 
The other night I drank before dinner a Cosmopolitan (in this instance represented to be a mix of vodka, Grand Marnier, lime juice and cranberry juice. It was served in a largish martini glass without any ice (frankly, I prefer them blended with ice after a long 18 of golf in the summer!). I considered this to be a cocktail, though I wasn’t sure because it seemed a bit more than 4 oz. and there is all that cranberry juice.
Last night I had a nice amaretto sour in a typical small tumbler of the sort I imagine they often serve scotch and soda in. It clearly wasn’t even 6 oz, and although I suspect the recipe contained that god-awful ‘sour mix’ that you see bottled in your grocery store, I definitely considered it a cocktail.
How am I doing?
There is a Mexican version of Cointreau that’s very good in a margarita. It’s a lot cheaper (I’ve only seen it for sale in Mexico, though) and is called “Controy.” And be sure to squeeze real limes. I usually mix it 1/1/1, but it depends on what kind of tequila you use.
Jill
(and I’d take a nice glass of cabernet over a cocktail most anytime, but I know how you kids are enjoying bringing back the “lounge” culture.)
{looking around, putting feet up}
Y’know, I gotta say I kinda LIKE it here in “Comments on Mailbag Answers.” Not too crowded, and the only folks who’ve posted in this thread are people I LIKE. No wildeyed Ayn Randians. No sarcastic Nazis or creationists or SUV drivers. No big dummies. Dex, you run a nice shop, I gotta say.
DSY: I think you could safely call those two drinks cocktails. The Cosmo must’ve been 4-5 oz. or so, right? And at least two of those ounces were booze.
Y’know what else I recommend? Plain ol’ vermouth, poured over a couple of ice cubes in a tumbler, maybe a wedge of lemon if you want to be fancy. I prefer the dry white, my wife likes the red. We started doing this in Italy, a country where cocktails are not revered.
Call it an aperitif.
Hello all. I’m new here, but not to the Straight Dope. Oddly enough (which seems to be a requirement) I had recently e-mailed a question asking about the origin of the term “highball” to the Straight Dope address, which was kindly answered by Jill. She re-directed me to this message board. I’ve read all your entertaining messages about the cocktail, but have seen the highball mentioned only in passing, and in a pejorative manner. I grew up hearing the term at family gatherings (usually on Sunday afternoons after dinner at Grandma’s, by my Uncles) , never knowing what it meant. The best info I can find comes from Merriam-Webster (I can’t afford a subscription to the OED) saying that it is some kind of railroad signal indicating full speed ahead as well as a tall drink. Knowing that there can be multiple plausible yet contradictory origins for one word, ala cocktail, I was wondering if anyone else might know more. Just thought I’d ask if anyone is interested.
Dave
HEY! I’m drinkin’ one as I post this! Heaven Hill bourbon and seltzer, just to give Gaudere another shot at mocking my liquor choices.
The “high-ball” pre-dates the railroad, going back to stagecoach days. American roadside inns used a ball signal to stop the passing coach for a passenger, or for mail.
A large metal ball was hoisted to the top of a pole to mean “go right on,” but was lowered to the ground as a signal to stop. Hence the “highballing” right past no-stop stations.
I assume the passengers celebrated the speedy trip by pouring another round of whiskey and water.
Uke
That’s the best guess I can come up with, too. The first written usage of highball as a RR term predates the drink term by a single year (1897 and 1898, respectively). People did indeed drink highballs on railroad trips; it seems likely that a whiskey and soda got saddled with a railroading term and “highball” was born. The fact that a highball mean “all clear” or “go ahead” makes it an apt name for a drink.
(The OED only lists highball as being a RR term, Uke; do you have a source for it being used previously for stagecoaches?)
Gaudere: I think your OED beats my pair of jacks.
My source is Eric Sloane’s Our Vanishing Landscape, (c. 1954). He’s rather vehement about stagecoaches using it first; gets all sniffy about how most people think of “highball” as a railroad term when it was really coined by Our Brave Boston Post Road Coach Drivers etc etc etc.
On the other hand, he IS Eric Sloane…correct me if I’m wrong, but I can’t help thinking of him as more of a nostalgia merchant than a painstaking historical researcher. His books are loads of fun, though.
Uke, yesterday the Cosmopolitan that my SO had at the Country Club was clearly a cocktail; I would guess the bartender’s formula for the drink includes the word ‘splash’ when describing the cranberry juice.
Now, if someone would just drag Uncle Beer in here, he and I can plot some strategy, though I still say its likely I would have to take the train into Chi-town in order to find a ‘swelegant’ hotel.