I think I already know your handicap, though I had forgotten my thinking about it from weeks ago. Meh. I suppose your reveal is not so bad since scum have likely pieced it together for themselves, but really, if it is what I think it is, don’t you think you should have stayed hidden? But now that I think of it, that is kind of your point.
I would venture to say, that if it is what I think it is, having the Mod reveal this information publicly was unfair, and gasp I understand Meeko’s sentiments.
Seriously Meeko? You’re claiming when there is no pressure on you do to so? I’m not sure why you think this game is going any differently from any others, I think this is about par for the course for SDMB Mafia games. Sure we haven’t found any Scum yet, but it’s not like we aren’t trying.
There are more Mason(s) out there. I am not saying how many, only that I was surprised at how many of us there were in a game this size. While I’m not a mind-reader, I think this is why Meeko believes there are more than the average number of Scum, or that Scum have powers above those of Town.
And I will name our “drawback,” as it may affect what people think of our claims, and possibly others. We cannot strategize amongst ourselves, at any time. Generally what this means, given what else we know about this game, is that Scum cannot Day-strategize. So any Scum fake-claim would have to be discussed at Night.
What does this say about Kelly? I have no idea. I have an issue with a Town power role where the role itself does not know what it does. One would think that Scum, if they had the ability to play as they go and urge Kelly to claim, would have come up with a better claim, if they could Day-strategize. If they’re stuck with Night-only strategy, they may not have realized that the votes would swing that direction, hoping they’d go toward the last-minute voters instead of the one who was being voted for. They may not have fully prepared a good fake claim. Now, if I were on a Scum team with a noob, I wouldn’t have let Kelly make it through the Night without a well-thought-out fake claim, but stranger things have happened.
So before I buy Kelly’s claim, I want to know a few things. First, what does your PM say about your role? Paraphrase, of course. I’ll explain why I’m asking you this after you answer. Second, were the names you got in your PMs role names, or player names? If they were player names, are the players still alive, or dead, or a combination of the two?
Although the rules seem to support your hypothesis about no daytime scum-talk, I wouldn’t hang too much on it. The fact that you as masons cannot strategize privately does not imply anything. Space Hijack had masons that couldn’t strategize, and scum had day and night strategy. Just saying is all.
I am however noticing a few scum advantages. Just thought I’d point these out again so they’re all fresh in everyone’s mind. Which means we might be able to count on a smaller (I’m thinking 3 or 4) sized scum team.
3rd parties, PFKs don’t count against Scum’s win condition.
I’m not sure that I buy Kelly’s soft-claim. He gets a PM once per Summer but he only has two names? If he were a cop like most people seem to be assuming he should have at least three names by now, one for each Winter.
Also, he just gets a name? That’s it? That doesn’t make any sense. A name on its own is worthless without some information about the name. I’m getting flashback’s to RyJae’s nonsensical “thought thief” claim in his first game.
I’m considering moving my vote to Kelly, but for now I want to keep some pressure on Diggit.
This isn’t unreasonable. All the same, my own role seems to suggest that the Town roles in this game may be decidedly odd. In the absence of a better reason to doubt than “well, it just sound weird to me,” I can’t see maintaining vote pressure on Kelly at this point as a good use of our time.
But Kelly, can you address the apparently missing piece of information? If you have received only two names, do you have any indication regarding why you did not receive a third?
I felt pressure on nearly every single post I made, to be cryptic on purpose. In other words, I had to make sure I wasn’t giving myself away.
I had to make sure I wasn’t slipping on PIS or anything. [Heh.]
I felt if I did not claim, I would have nothing more to add to the game. Yes, I could have not claimed, and added other things, but I don’t think it would go down as well.
I do not mean to single anyone out, just in general, I feel this game was headed down a one way street to a scum vctory.
IMHO, the game needed information. I did what I could to give it.
If we can call Kelly our dick, we are just given names of players, and nothing else.
A. If we have any other power roles, Please hold back on claiming for now.
B. Should we entertain a Name claim? Rotifer is not something you pass by everyday. Possibly good for scrabble, even better for a variant claiming structure.
C. Should we entertain speculation on what drawbacks other roles could have?
D. Is our game truly broken, or do we have all the pieces we need, just in different hands? How open should we be?
I’m not sure why everyone is assuming that Kelly is a detective. There is nothing indicating such at this time. Without any further indication from him regarding the information he is given and where it is coming from, I don’t think you can make any judgments of role based on getting names only. That doesn’t fulfill any of the typical advantages of the Detective. I think it’s clear that many of the claimed typical Town aligned power roles have some drawback, but they at least still retain their basic role function (ie Vig kills, Masons know each other, etc).
By my count there are 15 players left, even leaning toward Scum having 5 players that leaves 10 Town left with presumably several unclaimed power roles. I hardly think this game is a loss for Town yet.
I forgot about 4, which isn’t really a drawback so much as a message from the mod that says there’s no fudge room for mislynches. (If story isn’t full of it).
Let’s not count our detectives before they claim (fully). From the wiki description, I would have guessed coroner type, but that doesn’t fit with what kelly has said, so lets wait.
A. I agree.
B. No, name claim would expose the power roles or at least all the not-plankton.
C. The only thing is where do we base the speculations?
D. I have seen nothing to even hint that the game is broken. An honest assessment of that nature cannot be made from inside the game. The only role which I’ve seen that actually has a drawback is the vig role thats been claimed, which may not be truthful. While the masons not talking is an advantage to the scum, I don’t see it as a significant drawback to the masonic power, which is to say just because you guys can’t strategize in private does not diminish the fact that you know each other are pond. Since drain has confirmed you and you drain, I’m going to update the vote tallies that I have shortly, and see where they put us votes wise.
Word of advice, don’t get too stressed about whether the game is broken or not. I imagine that there is a lot we aren’t seeing from our current obscured vantage point. Best to make cases, and hunt scum.
I am eagerly awaiting further info from Kelly, but see no reason to move my vote from Story.
Kelly’s claim seems to make no sense at all. Random names being sent to you? And is it just a name and not other info, like you get a message with just “TexCat” in it? And, Kelly, if you’ve only received two names, when did you receive them? After winters 1 and 2, or 2 and 3, or 1 and 3? I am actually inclined to believe the claim, because no one would make up a claim this weird, would they? Yeah, they might, never say scum would never do something cause they will. All in all, though, I am still inclined to believe it.
Answers below. One quick point, I have erred on the side of vague for some of these answers, but am happy to spill it all before the end of the Day if the majority of remaining players agree it is in the town’s interest.
I do not know the significance of the names I receive, but I know that each summer, the name will be from a limited list of player names, and I know what the limited list is by the beginning of winter.
Entirely passive, as far as I can tell. I am not consciously aware of anything I am doing that is causing these names to be sent to me.
I have no idea. I do not know what the names are supposed to be indicating.
There’s actually been 4 summers if we count this one, and I need to run a correction here, I have received three names (at the beginning of summers 2, 3 and the current one), not just two as I initially stated (how am I going in my first game of Mafia?)
As I understand it, no, I am not plankton, I am a town-aligned rotifier.
As stated above, it’s actually three names from four summers. I got the first PM at the beginning of summer 2, and have received one at the beginning of every summer since. I can also confidently state that I will continue to receive these PMs at the beginning of every summer that I am still alive from now on.
I am not doing anything that I am consciously aware of that decides which name I am going to receive… but… I do know by the beginning of winter that the name will come from a limited set of names, and I also know what that limited set of names is by the beginning of winter.
I just get a name, eg:
KellyCriterion
I believe I have answered this above.
I do not know the significance of the names. It could be staring me in the face, but it’s not clear from my role PM, no matter how many times I read it, what the names are supposed to mean.
Erring on the side of vague…here’s a paraphrase
I am a rotifier. I am good at filtering things, I have an ear to the ground on things that others don’t, at the beginning of each summer I will receive a PM with a player name in it, this name will be from the list of players who <bleep>, and I am aligned with the pond.
Just the name. As for whether the players are still alive or dead… hmm… I’d like a few more opinions on whether I should share this.
Answered above.
Answered above. Just to re-iterate, I have received three names so far, one each at the beginning of summers 2, 3, 4.
And try as I might, I can not make head nor tail of what these names are supposed to mean. If the majority of remaining players think it is in the town’s interest, I will ensure that I leave enough time to blab it all before the summer ends.
Finally, thank you to natlaw, sach and Freudian Slit who answered some of my questions.
The key question for us is: is it possible to confirm your claim? With just the information you’ve given us, the only way I can imagine it happening is via your giving us the names. But first you’d have to explain what they’re meant to represent. Are they town? scum? Plankton*? something else? Knowing that, the names you have might confirm your claim. (Or they might not. But something has to.)
People making a role-claim are one of two things - genuine power-roles, or lying scum. We need to decide which you are and we will do that by testing the consistency of your claim, it’s plausibility as a role in this game, and our gut feel about whether you’re being honest. So far you’ve given us nothing we can actually test, nor enough information to judge how plausible your role is.
If you are town, you are already in the scum’s collective sights. More detail will not put you more at risk from them. Giving town insufficient detail to trust you increases your risk from us. I know town power-roles want to optimise the use of their powers, but it’s better to live with some utility rather than die without ever achieving anything. Even if confirming you means that you can never use your power, that’s probably better for us than you being lysed or NKd.
If you’re scum, of course, we’re going to push your story until it breaks, then lyse you. So either tell us what the names mean, or find some other way to convince us.
*[oog] I put this in of the top of my head, then realised what an impressively double-edged sword a vanilla/non-vanilla investigator would be. Has anyone seen that before?[/oog]
So, it looks to me like Kelly Criterion is actually posting from a radically different time zone than most of us; that’s going to make this questioning process difficult, or at least slow it down. All the same:
Kelly, now I’m going to ask a question that I encourage you to decide for yourself whether to answer. If you’re telling the truth, only you have enough information to determine whether answering this will help or hurt us in the end.
Have any of the names you received been names of players who have subsequently died?
