“Very useful” is a stretch. It’s an undirected investigation, so there’s nothing preventing it from producing redundant results (if Spawn votes for Oredigger again this Winter, and Kelly gets that info, it’s not real valuable), useless results (a result of “Kelly Criterion” doesn’t help very much, and neither would a result of “Drain Bead” or “Meeko”).
It has its uses, but if Kelly is somehow telling the truth and that’s our best or only investigative power, then we are in trouble.
If you got Kelly’s info on death, I’d say eat him tonight but it would be too frustrating to have him dead and to just not know. I’d rather know if he was telling the truth.
It makes a big difference to analyzing vote record. The votes yesterDay look very different if Kelly is third-party(and thus scum would be mostly indifferent between lynching Kelly and lynching Mahaloth) or if Kelly is scum(scum obviously want Mahaloth lynched).
Yeah, but if they could get additional information regarding the player the Spawn theoretically would be voting for in Winter (presumably they’d only get one vote in Winter), then it would be useful to the pond. In other words, given that **Kelly **has states she is “better placed than most to detect the changes made by hidden activity” could mean that IF Spawn vote for a player who has a Winter action then she would be notified of such. Including herself in her list smacks of trying to cover for saying she had 2 names earlier.
I’m also waiting to hear from Chronos regarding the spawn generation. Although I think his answer, based on the heading of his dawn posts “A spawn has appeared” (or something similiar), is going to be unfavorable to Kelly.
@texcat: I fail to see how Kelly’s list represents confirmed townies.
@storyteller: Please do not eat Kelly. Scum will vote 3rd party as if they were town. It’s important to the voting record that we know if Kelly is scum or not.
Maybe Kelly is telling the truth. Either way I don’t know that this power role as he describes it super important, and I think having him vigged if we don’t know what he turns up is a terrible idea. I’m starting to feel played with.
sachertorte, leaving aside the idea that Meeko’s actions may or may not have exposed the other masons, what was the pro-Town benefit of posting that in this thread?
Because it is true. Because this fact is an important part of our decision-making processes. Announcing public information is not anti-Town. If I’m able to narrow down who the other masons are, scum certainly can too (better even).
Case One - Chronos screwed up in his role PM to KellyCriterion:
At this point in the game, Chronos would need to clarify. The downside to this is of course he would be mod-confirming KellyCriterion, but by not clarifying he would be tossing a critical lynch to scum’s favor. By acting or not acting, Chronos would be affecting the outcome of the game. In this case I would expect Chronos to issue a clarification.
Case Two - Chronos didn’t screw up anything:
Then the expectation is for Chronos to stay silent.
OK, I can see your reasoning here, and it justifies your vote for Rysto. So why did you make your vote for Mahaloth conditional? If you were concerned about Kelly being lynched without having a chance to claim why didn’t you just place your vote on Mahaloth? I’ve quoted you below:
Also, why did you pick Rysto ahead of Cookies?
An SK who prevented target alignment from being revealed would break the game. I’m pretty sure that scum or 3rd party wouldn’t have a black-hole kill ability.
This plan won’t work if scum have a redirector, doctor or blocker.
Sorry if this wasn’t very clear, it relates to what I said earlier in the game about the cases against Mahaloth and Kelly. At the time Kelly went on the offensive, I think Mahaloth was about 3 votes up. I couldn’t see a reason for a scum-Kelly to suddenly attack me, and he quickly picked up votes after this. I mentioned cross-bussing as that would have been a possible motivation for Kelly’s strange attack, to get himself lynched ahead of Mahaloth, but I didn’t rate it as likely. I thought the case for Mahaloth was stronger if Kelly was town, and that he might have been going after easy targets.
See above, there are some serious drawback’s with TexCat’s plan. If we could trade a townie to confirm Story it might be worth doing. With an even number of players it wouldn’t affect the number of mis-lynches available (currently, we have an odd number, but that could change). I’m strongly opposed to the idea now, but we might want to re-visit this late in the game, when we have a clearer idea of the setup. The biggest danger is a possible scum re-director.
Your “truth table” post was pretty sensible, but Story did make a valid point about that scum would prefer to kill an unclaimed player over a vanilla.
I’ve explained my reasoning above. If necessary, I can dig out the earlier posts I made about the Mahaloth and Kelly cases.
This is a bonus for us. Meeko can be confusing, so it’s good that he has a confirmable role.
It’s a point against the claim, it’s harder to keep invented facts straight.
That is my understanding as well. I’ll wait for Chronos to respond before I place my vote.
I don’t “insist” on voting late. I often do, because I prefer to vote only when I am at least somewhat confident in the vote. Particularly in this game, where I will generally not be reading or playing much during the first 36 hours or so of each Day (as I have noted, the weekend is a very bad time for me to play), this generally translates into a later vote than some would prefer. If I feel confident, as I did with Rysto today, I will get the vote in quickly (as I did today). I have, incidentally, answered this at least once already.
Because I felt like my role was so useless that I thought the Town should know that its Vigilante was crippled and they should not rely on one. I was also hoping someone might have insight on my role that I hadn’t had yet. Obviously, I decided the benefits of silence were greater than the benefits of early claiming.
You can’t. I have definitely addressed this question. You can’t. You can’t verify my claims.
I’m not.
Voting at the time I made that post would have created a tie, which I considered to be a somewhat bad thing because it results in a random outcome. As soon as I had the chance to swing the vote decisively the other way, I did so. However, I was, as I said, a bit agnostic on the subject of Mahaloth. I didn’t feel like voting for him would best represent my suspicions at the time - I do try to keep my votes in a place that best reflect my current thinking unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.
I already addressed this in my response to sach upthread a bit. In short, because Cookies appeared to have running suspicion of Kelly, while Rysto’s vote seemed to come out of nowhere and be underjustified.
For your points, can you direct me, please, to the specific points you’d like me to address? This is a long thread.
You never know what Scum can and cannot deduce. It is ALWAYS anti-Town to publicly announce in the thread the potential outing slip of a power role. It’s handing information to Scum that they did not have before, doing their job for them. It is the job of the power roles to out themseves when and if they see fit. Town’s job is not to look for Masons, it’s to look for Scum.
I disagree. Meeko’s claim and the subsequent implications of that claim are clear as day. To say that I handed information to scum that they did not already have is ridiculous.
