If we’re citing fictional works that depict the fifties/early sixties, can I cite the reputable source, Grease, and the mooning scene? 
Hey guys, I said I knew I might be wrong. And I said “seems” several times.
Scuttling? I always thought it was called ‘sharking’.
Also, Chuck, just asking, not asserting, but I’ve read a lot about Elvis, they were not hagiographies, and I’ve never heard that bottle anecdote. What is your source on that? Wiki uses the term “rumor”.
Second paragraph of the OP?
According to first-hand testimony given to me, in my office in the 1940’s and 1950’s things very close to, or exactly like the described acts in the OP happened from time to time.
And according to this same testimony, the women victims were supposed to just laugh it off - if they wanted to keep their jobs. It never happened to married women, only single women, typically very young single women.
I remember the actual HGB column and the way she described it was that the “gal” would be chased around and when cornered someone would reach upskirt and yank her undies down (…off? to her ankles, knees? She didn’t say, just that “de-pantying was the sole goal and nothing went further”… a phrase like that sticks with you!). I recall no mentioning of stripping down the person. And yes, that was the last and only mention of the “scuttle game” I saw in mainstream media until Mad Men.
But who could stay mad at Joan?
In the OP, I said:
You replied:
To which I replied:
The subject of scuttling did not come up in the hearings, but (as I said in the OP) was brought up during the hearings, as a result of the ensuing public discussions of sexual harrassment.
This may seem like nitpicking, but in trying to track down hard-to-find references to this supposed practice, it’s important to be specific about where they came from.
Interesting. Thank you for this. Any idea what part of the country this occurred in?
Considering I work in that company, yes…Kansas City.
I think young folks today don’t really have any concept of just how toxic some workplaces were to women, especially pretty young women, in ther period post-WW2 to the late 60’s. Especially in offices where male testosterone ruled with an iron fist. There have been whole books written on the institutionalized culture in some offices of young, single women being seen basically as office concubines. The shopworn trope of “fat old male executive has pretty young stenographer sit on his lap to take dictation” (and presumably give him a handy-J if she wants a good review this quarter) has a basis in reality. I’ve spoken to more than a few older women who were victims of such treatment. Even married women were not immune, although it was much less common. After all, there was the chance hubby would show up at work with a 12-gauge after his wife reported on one-too-many butt pinchings.
I cannot remember the name of the firm, but there was a scandal in the early/mid 1990’s of an engineering firm (a competitor of mine) where they ended up in court over a sexual harassment suit, and it was revelaed that the top brass had purposefully hired secretaries with the understanding of the secretaries that in return for getting a near 6-figure salary, they were expected to be…well, prostitutes, to be blunt. IIRC the women actually signed a contract saying as much (which presumably was not kept in their file…). I remember being shocked on hearing it, and being doubly shocked at hearing the ribald talk from male co-workers who were saying things like “damn, wouldn’t that be the life…” and “huh, she doesn’t look worth $80k a a year” (referring to a photo in the paper of one of the abused women). :rolleyes:
I’ll see if I can Google up the firm over lunch today.
You bookend your remarks with disclaimers, but this really is a masterwork of misconception and mythmaking. The 1950s were not an era of such extreme innocence and sexual frustration that men were like a switch with two settings: unsexed and uncontrolled rapist. Many men of the era had served in the military and had had plenty of opportunity for extra-marital dalliances. They weren’t pathetically hard-up cases who would lose their minds at a mere sight of lace.
Pre-marital sex was quite common and unplanned pregnancies usually resulted in quick marriages or “visits to the country,” where childbirth and adoption would be handled discreetly. There was a recent book about the thousands and thousands of young women in the mid-20th century who were forced to give up their out-of-wedlock children for adoption.
I recall the beginning of the women’s lib movement, and after the whole “Fly Me” ad campaign, that some stewardesses complained that being butt-pinched was a regular part of the job and management ignored the complaints. That sort of behaviour was standard when the boss tolerated it.
Like the rest of society, some organizations were run by “prudes” who believed women deserved respect, and some by the “boys” at the top who had no worried about stopping thehijinks. The office party was notorious because it was a social situation, alcohol was involved, and the usual rules of office decorum don’t apply.
it was not a time of repression so much as a polite veneer; the naive belives everything was rosy and light, and teh cynics knew that when the curtains were drawn all sorts of sexual and nasty things happened. They just did not make the news or impeachment hearings. IIRC, some reporter once made the remark about JFK’s recreational habits (reported many many years later) “This guy’s going to do for fucking what Eisenhower did for golf.”
I do have to wonder about the “scuttling” story (which I’ve never heard of the term before) for a simple reason. I’m certainly not an expert in 1950’s women’s undergarments, but with the girdle, garter belt, stockings, etc. is is that easy for a women in a formal-dress occasion to be “de-pantied” with just a tug?
As for the Clarence Thomas thing, to get off topic, I often wondered why, if he was an out-and-out sexual bully, why a lot more women did not come forward? I would expect him to be more mercenary to helpless secretaries than to some up-and-coming qualified lawyer. They couldn’t all be too afraid if the whole power of one of the big parties in the USA would be behind them…
My WAG is yes for the simple reason that she’d want to be able to go to the bathroom with minimal fuss. A hundred years before Mad Men when Victorian women wore layers of petticoats, a corset, and skirts that reached to the floor they wore “crotchless panties” underneath or went commando.
Underwear hijack (:D) continued
Indeed Victorian drawers as I see by period illustration seem to have been two independent leggings that were laced together at the waist band, with no fixed gusset panels whatsoever.
In the time period of the 40s-60s, before the widespread adoption of pantyhose, underpants would often be worn over the garter suspenders, if you used those, for that reason. Also the stockings could just be held up each with an elastic garter, or in summertime you’d go bare-legged. Art Frahm pinups had some limited plausiblilty (do NOT Google at work:p!).
Girdles, OTOH, may have been more of a challenge.
/Underwear hijack
I get going commando but what’s the point of even wearing panties at all if they’re crotchless?
And I just realized my last two posts on the SDMB (including this one) were underwear related. Sick Freudian Slit!
At first I was disbelieving, but then reflected on a few points, notably (a)it was an office party, not work day; (b) booze was involved; © attitudes were very patronizing and things like groping were common.
I’m still a bit disbelieving that stripping down to her underwear was common, but I can see the part about lifting her skirt, or wrestling with her to lift her skirt. There was very much a power dynamic, and women were at the bottom of it.
I also think about the thing I’ve only seen in movies (and booze at office parties, held in the office, is one thing I’ve only seen in movies) is someone photocopying his/her butt. I think the example I’m thinking of comes from Scrooged, where a young lady is photocopying her paties while sitting on the machine.
Then again, to watch TV now one would think that everyone is getting it on with coworkers all the time. I haven’t experience this, either. YMMV.
Leave a bunch of teenage boys in a room with a copier and no adult supervision for awhile. Butts aren’t the only thing that get copied. 
Near the end of season 2 Peggy get’s a lecture from a very patronizing technician about how the machine isn’t meant to be sat on; so I don’t think copying bodyparts has been around as long as copying machines.
I worked for a small software company in the 80’s where the boss did this. I once had to help break up a fist-fight in the lobby when an angry husband showed up after his wife got fired for failing to put out.
Sometimes a pair of crotchless panties is just a pair of crotchless panties…
Helen Gurley Brown. Isn’t she the one that advocates that a woman’s ideal path to success is to find a rich man and break up his marriage?