SDMB Charging for Access - Comments

About This Message Board
81

Somebody called me “Sally Struthers” in another thread on this topic when I played the Peace Corps card. I liked that a lot! I want to be the SDMB spokeslady in late night TV ads and tabloids, showing pictures of the needy so other SDMB posters could “adopt” them and pay their memberships. I’d wear lots of makeup and cry like Tammy Fay. The adoptees would have to exchange letters and photos with their new “families” too. Whaddaya think?

(We have talked about a fund to help posters who can’t pay and the idea of multi-level memberships, btw)
Jill

82

Won’t work unless you have a shrill, shrieky, out-of-breath, whiney, tremulous voice, and I always “pictured” you having an Eartha Kitt as Catwoman/ Kate Heburn voice.

Can’t do a sob-story with that kinda voice.

Fenris

83

Does anyone really expect a free discussion board as a right?. I just consider myself lucky that I found this wonderful site a few weeks ago and have not had to pay yet.

I would much prefer a subscription fee to advertising, as I find that tends to be far too intrusive for me – all part of the ‘TANSTAAFL’ adage, I suppose. But I readily concede that what I want might only work in the community of my dreams, which SDMB approaches but might not be yet.

As a very humble suggestion, would it be possible for the most valued contributors to be given discounts, or even free subscriptions? They could be on-going subsidies, or one-off rewards for a particularly good series of posts. Possibilities include:

[ul][li]The **You-Might-Not-Win-The-Nobel-Prize-For-Literature-But-Several-Times-This-Year-You-Kept-Us-Away-From-The-TV **Prize,[/li][li]The **Other-People-Don’t-Think-You-Are-Worth-Paying-And-We-Don’t-Either-But-You’re-Kind-Of-Clever-And-Pathetic-So-We-Are-Going-To-Reduce-The-Fine-For-Writing-To-Us **Grant,[/ul]and, most prestigious of all,[/li][ul][li]The **We-Want-You-Here-More-Than-We-Want-Your-Money **Scholarship[/li][/ul]
DD
PS: I think someone objected to the message board software, saying it would need to be upgraded before they would pay for the service. It seems fast and flexible enough for me, and I only have a 56k modem and 64MB of Ram.

84

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by frinkboy *
[li]I know that this may have a ton of problems with it, but is there some way the SDMB could make money off the many DOPEFESTS? I know that these get-togethers are really popular, perhaps there could be a $25 entrance fee? Merchandise could be made available at these events, and there might be a way the Board could get a cut from the revenue at the venue.[/li][/QUOTE]

Dopefests are not a SD/Chicago Reader sponsored event, they do not have any right to charge an entrance fee. If they did, they would be legally liable for what happened at the 'Fests and I don’t think that’s something they are going to go for, no matter how much money it could bring in. :smiley:

Besides, a lot of smaller 'Fests are held at a poster’s private residence. The SD can not charge someone to invite people to their home.
(coding fixed - Jill)

[Edited by JillGat on 11-11-2001 at 04:10 PM]

85

:: sighs ::

I wonder if I put this tooth under my pillow the tooth fairy would leave me the ability to code instead of money.

86

I make $8 an hour and work 30 hours a week. In theory, I could work an extra 3 hours one week to pay for the Board. But in reality, if I have the ability and time to work an extra 3 hours, and my boss okays it, then I have $20 that can go many other places. Tuition is my main concern. I often send in any extra money I end up with (like if I search my house for spare change, or find money on the street or something) to my credit card bill, which is exclusively run up with car repairs and books. Believe it or not, I am very responsible with my money, I just don’t have a lot to manage. I made some poor decisions with a credit card three years ago and ran up a balance of $3000; it was all paid off by last January (I was not at school and working full-time then). If I have extra money, I just cannot spare it. There are so many more things that NEED to be paid. I don’t have the funds to support many luxuries.

I also will not be sponsered. I was on welfare and lived in public housing for half my life. I swore I would never again accept handouts, and I’ve stuck to that oath. It might seem silly to some, but to accept $20 to play here would compromise my dignity. I accept charity from no one, and I rely on myself solely. I simply do not have it in me to accept such a thing.

The best idea I have heard so far suggested the following payment option:

Check what you are able to pay:
[$5]
[$10]
[$20]
[$30]
[$40]
[$50]

The people who want to be here and can afford $50 will no doubt pay it. Students like me can check $5 or $10.

Una, I know you did not mean to attack me. I just wanted to reiterate why I have to leave the Boards when and if the time comes to pay.

Also, I object to the argument that we have been getting a free ride all along and now we owe up, which is the idea several mods and admins have expressed. This Board was presented to me as a free message board. No mention was made at all when I registered that I would eventually have to pay. If it was, or if I had to pay at first, I never would have registed in the first place.

In my book, it is simply not right to offer someone something for free and then condemn them later for taking it. Say I gave you a present, then asked you for $20 in compensation for it two years later. When you refused, I say, “but you’ve been enjoying the present for two years! I deserve a payment!”, even though it was presented to you as a free gift with no strings attached. That’s just not acceptable behavior, and I find it deplorable.

87

Sara, you’re a super person and I really, really love reading your posts whenever I come across them. That is why I will personally pay your SDMB registration money when the time comes if you will please, please stop convincing us that you can’t afford the proposed fee. I believed you the first ten times.

And I’m serious. Bookmark this page. :slight_smile:

88

Yeah, I’m aware that the Dopefest are informal gatherings & not organized by the Chicago Reader. My only point was that it would be great if we could somehow figure out a way for them to help to generate revenue to keep the board alive. And as for the 'Fests being held at private residences, I’m not saying that Cecil Adams himself should be at the door collecting fees–but if we did decide on something like that, perhaps the host could do that?

But, yeah–that idea is a little off-the-wall, I admit. Just trying to brainstorm some alternatives.

How about something like this: At the Dopefests, maybe everyone could contribute $10 towards a raffle…the winner would take home a boxful of Straight Dope merchandise.

Or maybe a $5 “fine” could be charged to anyone who makes a sexual innuendo? :wink:

But I agree that The Chicago Reader being connected to the Dopefest in any offical capacity would create a legal liability nightmare…

89

At present, we are all being sponsored – by Cecil and the volunteers.

I understand that you would not want to be singled out as a ‘charity case’ with individual sponsorship, Sara, but if it is offered, why not just accept it as a present from someone who loves you?

I like this suggestion too. Even tho’ some people might understate what they are ‘able’ (read ‘willing’? ‘prepared’?) to pay, it is still possibly a better indication of the support the Millions will give.

Fair point, but I think the main objections are to an apparent indignation at the idea of charging a fee, as tho’ the original free service must be continued. I don’t think anybody is suggesting we are obliged to pay for what we have had up to now – although … (wonders about it, thinks ‘maybe’, thinks ‘must be practical’, thinks 'get on with it and post already!!!)

90

I’m glad somebody liked this. I posted it in that first Pit thread and thought it had been lost in the tumult.

The Chicago Reader is not at all keen on the idea of direct donations to keep the SDMB afloat. There have been discussions on this in the past, but whilst I’ve heard various theories (mods reluctant to ban members who have donated generously is one I heard recently), I’m still not sure on a definite reason for this. It is possibly also for legal reasons, but I’m not familiar with the laws in the US, so I don’t know. The idea of a voluntary scale of payment, hopefully, would remove these concerns, yet provide a de facto doorway for donation. Regardless of the amount chosen, you’d simply be paying for a service. No strings attached.

Ideally, to save Dopers’ dignity, it wouldn’t be worded “Check what you are able to pay”, but simply “Select one of the following payment plans”. Each amount paid would provide an identical level of access to the boards, and each individual member’s contribution would be kept confidential. Only the administrators would know. The mods would not need this information, and the members at large certainly wouldn’t be privy to it. Members would also undertake not to divulge their own payment information on the boards - a bannable offence.

As I mentioned in the other thread, Dopers being the people they are, I know many would check an amount at the very upper end of what they could afford. Abuse of the system would be quite low.

I think it’s uncomplicated and utterly workable -if I do say so meself. :wink:

91

Thanks for pointing up that tech orientated site, SK. This is their subscription page:

http://arstechnica.com/etc/subscribe/subscribe-1.html

In principle, I’m with you on making GQ free to post – don’t know if this particular software could be so configured but maybe we’ll find out. It will need tighter moderating, though and that’s work for someone.

When you say “hardware” do you mean the server because I’ not sure it’s likely to be a problem after pay to post (PTP) ?
Also, it looks like they did try what they call a ‘Benefactor’ system – I’m guessing that’s similar to what we’re calling ‘sponsorship’. Mention of it is made on their subscription FAQ page (at the very bottom):

http://arstechnica.com/etc/subscribe/faq-1.html
I’d recommend people taking a look at their FAQ as it looks like the future.

It’s also an interesting site as it looks to be one founded on tech but which has then gone on to wider things and (like here) become a victim of its own success.

92

Different Member Groups can be created that have different access privileges in VB. You could have a subscribed member class that gave forum posting privileges everywhere, and a Registered Class that just allowed Posting in whichever fora were decided to keep free. However, someone would have to move people from registered to subscribed when people pay & back again if their subscription lapses, or there would need to be an interface from the subscription software to do that. It is either going to be a lot of coding, or a lot of ongoing work.

I don’t know the details of what subscription service they will use, so I can’t help more than that I’m afraid.

93

Sure, I agree – we all make choices all the time. I just wanted to understand what this proposal means for students and the less wealthy. With the help of you and pepper I understand it seems to come down to:

Somewhere from 40 cents and up to $1.00 a week (depending on the final figure) which, on minimum wage (using a mean of $6), equals 4 to 10 minutes extra work per week.

Or 3 – 9 hours per year.

I have no idea how feasible this is administratively but how would you students feel about forgetting the “I’ll buy your subscription” idea that some are offering and, instead, have an option whereby family, friends, fellow dopers, etc., could buy you something like a cyber gift voucher at Christmas, Birthdays, whatever, via the board - it’s not uncommon here, a little like an educational gift ?
fierra – Thanks for the explanation. Glad you’re better :slight_smile:

94

If we are looking at either a funded SDMB or no SDMB then, to state the obvious, funded is better. TheLoadedDog has emerged with a good idea for scaled payments.

However, should the Board Administration opt for a flat rate, I strongly urge that the member category in current use for all members is retained and, that no discriminatory appellations are used to replace it.

Spurious or not, there is already one factor which for some people is a guide to member credibility, namely the oft mentioned post count. More than one class of user would add to the problem.

Nostradamus: Member is far preferable to Nostradamus: Sponsor or Nostradamus: Sponsored or Nostradamus: $5.

Furthermore I would like to see the question of member sponsorship, if adopted, administered on the basis of numbers rather than names. I would agree to sponsor one or two Dopers to be chosen at the discretion of the Board Administration, but I would not wish to sponsor named individuals.

The less information which is known about sponsoring arrangements the better as far as I am concerned. The more details are known of such arrangements the greater the chance of a conflict of interest.

95

Disclaimer: I’ve read hundreds of posts about this over the past day and a half, but I have not read them all, so pardon me if what I am about to say has already been said. Also, I am going to piggyback on others’ ideas, and in the interests of not looking back through hundreds of posts, I might not give credit to the person who proposed it, or I might accidentally credit the wrong person.

I think it is clear that the quality of the board will drop if everyone is required to pay. Some people can’t, some won’t, and new people are less likely to sign up. What if paying was made optional?

Those who can’t pay won’t have to. They can stay and post as they always have. Students, those not from the United States, and people with any one of innumerable other reasons will be able to stay. Of those who won’t pay, some of them who won’t pay if “forced” on principle might pay if it were a free choice. Some still won’t – but it doesn’t really matter, because they wouldn’t have paid anyway. Those who already were going to pay can still do so. As Nacho4Sara and others have suggested, there can be a range of available payment options. There could also be some privileges for those who pay, some random ideas (not necessarily feasible) being: ability to edit posts, cool titles (as opposed to “member”), the [img] tag, html…I’m sure you can think of other possible benefits.

This seems to me like the best of both worlds. You still get the money from the people who are going to pay, and you don’t lose any membership. A few people who would pay if forced will not if it’s optional, but I think they are a small minority, and the benefit of retaining the full membership would outweigh the loss of their money.

Thoughts?

96

For a variation of what SDP is talking about, you can check out http://www.LiveJournal.com . Anyone can post for free, but they access slower servers. Pay members have more options, like editing their page structure and uploading pictures, and a faster server. Most of the people I know on LJ have upgraded to the pay service, just because of the increased value.

Here’s a link to their pay structure http://www.livejournal.com/paidaccounts/. It definitely lured me in, I was one who swore I’d never pay for a site, but I got hooked, and the promise of more flexibility once I was in the door was enough to get me to pull out my wallet and cough up the $25.

97

See some old members who talked about this subscription a before (2000):
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=30429

Only $9.95 per year back then. Plus:

“A mandatory membership fee would kill this board outright. I know that many folks don’t spend much time in the Comments fora, but really, those are the purpose of this board, and what makes us different from every other board on the net.”

98

Originally posted by TVeblen:

I certainly didn’t expect to able to post here for free, nor do I feel a sense of entitlement.

It was offered to me for free. I posted here nor nearly two years for free. I honestly did not see this coming. This is the first message board I’ve ever posted to, and I have no porblems whatsoever with the connection speed or whatever. My stepdad uses the internet all the time because he maintains his band’s website, and once he saw how fast my old college ethernet link ran, he shelled out for a cable modem. (I think it’s a ridiculous expense, but he uses this computer a lot more than I do.) I post a lot from my school computer lab, and the connection speed there is slower, but still okay. So I really didn’t foresee this happening.

I also recieved THREE (count 'em, three) very rude, hurtful e-mails, one anonymously, telling me the same thing - that I’ve been getting a free ride all along and now feel entitled to one.

I’m sorry if I seem to be whining about or reiterating my financial situation. I recieved so much flack in the MPSIMS/Pit thread about having the money but choosing not to spend it, about how if I just worked a little harder, got a second part-time job, licked envelopes, gave up my luxuries (?) than I would be able to afford it, which is false. I sort of assumed everyone else must feel the same way and think I was just lazy, which is so untrue it makes me see red.

I don’t know if I would accept a Christmas voucher or whatever. I learn more in Great Debates than I do in many of my required GER classes, so I could see it as an educational thing. But then I would feel bad about posting in MPSIMS and the Pit. Also, if I knew who gave me the money, I would feel kind of shitty if I disagreed with them over something. If I didn’t know, I would be hesitant to disagree with anyone for fear they might have given me the money, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of posting here.

I don’t know. I’m going through this whole ordeal with financial aid for school right now because they are only paying for half my tuition instead of the full thing like they promised, and now my parents have to get a loan, because I can’t pay the other half. So I really don’t want to think about money ever again, especially here.

99

Then you haven’t been paying much attention.

Look, Sarah, you know I adore you, so please take this as advice from a friend: You’re being awfully melodramatic, and you’re really not contributing much to the discussion. You can’t afford it? Fine. You won’t take a sponsorship/gift? Fine. But I think it’s time for you to drop it.

100

Sara If you still have copies of those emails…

“I also recieved THREE (count 'em, three) very rude, hurtful e-mails, one anonymously, telling me the same thing - that I’ve been getting a free ride all along and now feel entitled to one,”…

I would seriously email Lynn or a Mod. That is jerky behavior, and could get a poster banned, especially the anonymous one.

Anyone who would have the desire to sponsor you would have the hide necessary to have you flame them. :smiley:

At lease you seem to be coming to grips with someone trying to be nice to you. Accepting a gift gratiously is one of the hardest things many people ever learn. You just say “thank you” and go on with life.