ETA: Too late to change the title I guess, but it wasn’t supposed to imply that left wing 'dopers were in lock step with Republicans, but that this seemed to be where the meme was coming from about Republicans being in lock step.
For years I’ve been hearing the meme on this board that Republicans are in total lock step about everything, that they vote the party in all things and that if they gained a majority they would enact a series of steps that would take us back to the 50’s. Based on the clusterfuck we are seeing unfold in the last 7 months (can it ONLY have been 7 months since this idiot was elected?? :eek:), I was wondering about the current state of that meme around here. To me, it doesn’t SEEM that the Republicans are in anything like lockstep these days. AFAICT, they can’t decide among themselves on anything to do that is in theory part of their core objectives. And the disconnect between Republican senators and congress critters and this idiot in charge seems pretty wide as well. But even leaving The Donald aside, Republicans seem to be completely melting down from my perspective. Even my dad, a totally staunch Republican, is starting to complain that ‘they ALL need to be voted out’ and saying…well, ok, that it’s the liberal medias fault, blah blah blah. However, he seems to realize that the Republicans he had pinned so much of his hopes on to bring back the bad old days aren’t going to be able to accomplish much, even though they seemingly could do whatever they want at this time with the clear majority.
I don’t know, and I can’t say for sure, but it feels to me, like for every reference to Republicans being in lockstep, there are twice as many references to, “some Republicans…”, which would seem to indicate the reverse belief.
I think they’re melting down because if they fulfill their promises, like cutting Medicare/aid, etc. Even their constituents are gonna get pissed and jump ship. If they don’t deliver as they promised the far right will massacre them come election time.
They like being in power, but are more than a little nervous that being Donald’s yes man could cost them their illustrious careers, should tides shift. And in volatile times, where confusion reigns, the tide can turn quite swiftly.
They are like cats on a hot roof, while also caught between a rock and a hard place, poor things. It’s gotta be incredibly stressful, don’t ya think, to work in this administration?
Republican politicians display some overlap but can roughly be divided into: the business establishment, the religious right, the libertarians, and everyone’s favorite, the Tea Party. Neocons and paleocons used to be a thing, but not so much anymore, though Trump did poach a lot of paleocon rhetoric when it comes to immigration and trade. There’s a meme that Republicans are more loyal whereas Democrats are fickle, like the saying that Republicans fall in line and Democrats fall in love, but that’s more about the grass roots than the actual politicians.
Republicans don’t have the votes to clear the hurdle, so they can just blame their lack of progress on obstructionism, same as Obama-era Dems.
There’s the “obstructionism” of trying to stop the undeserving from getting too much health. Then there’s the “obstructionism” of that Chinese guy standing in front of the tank.
Well, there are two ways of looking at this. Are Republicans returning us to the 50’s? Hell, yeah. The Trump administration is destroying environmental protections, minority rights, voting rights, trade agreements, and health and retirement care. Exactly as they said they would. That’s all being done by agencies in the executive branch so Congress is superfluous to this issue.
Is Congress moving in lockstep? Hell, yeah. Then why hasn’t it passed the bills it wants? Mainly because the Senate normally requires 60 votes to move bills, not just a simple majority and there are only 52 Republicans. Of those 52 Republicans, 90% vote in lockstep at a minimum. Lindsey Graham called “skinny repeal” a “fraud” and then voted for it. McCain changed his vote because he was afraid that the House Republicans would accept the bill as is. The Republicans have not passed one acceptable law. And, AFAIK, they have not refused one single Trump appointment. The only thing holding them back is a thin line of Democrats. Are the Democrats voting in lockstep? Yeah, pretty much exactly as the Republicans did under Obama. What a surprise.
The Republican Party might yet at some future time melt down. Trump frightens most of them. Remember that he had to beat 16 Republicans for the nomination, and virtually the entire Congress endorsed one of his opponents. Jeff Sessions, the first Senator to endorse Trump is being persecuted by Trump because he won’t break the law for him. What signal does that send? Trump puts personal loyalty over party loyalty every time. That’s the wedge that will split Republicans.
Policies? Nah. They’re getting what they want. Not all of it. Even the remaining “moderate” i.e. not crazy-fringe-right Republicans see how dangerous the rest of it is. Who knows if that will last. The Secretary of the Interior already threatened Murkowski with a loss of money to Alaska.
The world is burning and you are upset because not enough gas is being poured on the fire. Think about that position for a while.
I’d have to check but I think the lock-step accusations against the Republicans was primarily in the GW Bush and paricularly in the early Obama administration when McConnell was able to Hold a united Block to upend and filibuster even the most mundane of proposals. Once the Tea party got going I don’t think people were talking so much about GOP unity. Certainly no lockstep mentality was behind the ouster of Boehner, and the threats to not raise the debt limit.
As for the Dems, they aren’t on the brink of civil war so that puts them ahead of the GOP in terms of unity, and they are united in the horror at the Trump administration, but there still isn’t the united doctrinal purity that used to be present in the GOP.
I think a good analogy for the current Republican crowd would be a bunch of young children on Christmas morning. They’re swarming around, tumbling all over each other, each trying to grab their own presents and tear them open as fast as possible.
The Republicans aren’t trying to hold each other back or apply any restraint on themselves. But they’re all so eager to work on their own agendas that they’re interfering with each other. They don’t have anyone who’s imposing order on them and telling them “Okay, we’re going to abolish health care this month and repealing environmental regulation is on hold until next month.”
First off, no idiot was elected. One almost was, but that’s a different issue.
What we are seeing, for all practical purposes, is the unmasking of RINOs in Congress. We had several who loudly proclaimed that they were going to vote to kill Obamacare, all the while knowing that it would never happen while Obama was in the White House. Now there is a new President, ready and willing to sign the bill, and the RINOs are backing down on the “promises” they made.
Trump promised better healthcare for more people at lower rates. For some reason, Republicans are having a tough time coming up with a plan for this. They should just ask Trump what he would do, apparently he’s got ideas. Big ideas.
This kinda proves the OP’s point, doesn’t it? Those people who call themselves Republican and were elected by Republicans and have served in the Republican office for decades… not really Republicans.
I think liberals have always been a little more diverse in views (gun control seems to be a big issue that divides liberals), but I think they are becoming increasingly more fractured too. The divide between Bernie and Hillary was pretty ideologically stark. I’m increasingly finding myself at odds with many of my liberal brethren.
My personal answer to the OP would be that I’ve never perceived Republicans as moving in lockstop. I’ve perceived them as pretending to all agree for the sake of unit cohesion and keeping their bickering behind closed doors. Lately that is becoming impossible to do.
I get so completely mad when people use that term “Republican In Name Only”. :mad: It implies that there is only one way to be a Republican, that if you don’t vote lockstep on every core “Republican” proposal, you can’t really be a Republican. That’s the sort of stupid mantra that has kept me from voting for Republican candidates (generally) for the last 15 years or so.
Here’s a novel thought: a person can be a “true” Republican and still disagree with, and even vote against bills that the Republican leadership brings to the floor. Last night, in the House, an attempt to neuter the CBO was soundly defeated, with Republicans split on the issue. Does that mean that every Republican Representative who didn’t vote in favor of the bill is a “RINO”? What nonsense.
John McCain voted against the bill for very specific reasons. Those reasons have nothing to do with being a Republican In Name Only (for God’s sake, he was your Presidential Candidate just 9 years ago, and his views haven’t changed noticeably in the interim!). They have to do with the fact that he cannot accept the idea of using the exact same procedural highjinks used by the Democrats to PASS the ACA in trying to repeal it, especially if the result is a bill that will do more harm than good. “Regular order” means something important to him. I guarantee you that, if the Senate actually uses Regular Order to produce a bill which repeals the obnoxious parts of the ACA and fixes the effect of that law on the insurance markets, he’ll vote for it in a skinny minute.
And I will point out a simple fact: Collins and Murkowski might well have been convinced to vote yes if the Planned Parenthood provision had been removed from the skinny bill. But, of course, that would have upset the “true” Republicans (read: Tea Party conservatives), who would have refused to vote for the bill. Which means it was more important for the “true” Republicans to defund PP, than it was for them to kill the ACA. Who’s the RINO now? :dubious:
Can you point to how the bill they were voting on would kill Obamacare? Actually, can you point to how ANY of the four bills they had on offer would do that?
I am astonished that anyone imagines Republicans are not in lock-step.
GOP Senators vote on the nomination of Rick Perry for Energy Secretary? He’s the guy who had no clue whatsoever about the DoE — he didn’t even know the Department’s name. His nomination would be treated as an utter joke in saner days. Yet almost every single Republican Senator voted to make this guy Secretary. DeVos — the shameless bitch who wants to change the emphasis of public schools from education to profit opportunities for her cronies? Sure — why not make her nomination unanimous? Even Johnny Boy the “Maverick” gets out of his sickbed to cast a vote Trump’s way.
Different thinkers might have different ideas about the major problems facing America. With billionaires becoming multi-billionaires and the gulf between rich and poor becoming so wide as to cause social upheavals, what does the GOP almost unanimously agree is America’s most pressing need? Tax cuts for the rich!
However, he seems to realize that the Republicans he had pinned so much of his hopes on to bring back the bad old days aren’t going to be able to accomplish much, even though they seemingly could do whatever they want at this time with the clear majority.
