I definitely want the rosters to stay deep - I essentially want to see every useful player on a roster with this league format. It’s not a big deal to me to have an extra slot though, just thought I’d propose the idea… in a league this deep, I’d like for the teams with better depth to have an opportunity to shine.
I see the point about the 3 RBs though, so maybe an extra WR/TE spot.
Btw, what should we do about scoring? Given how all sorts of depth/role players will be drafted, I think we should at least add a 25 individual return yards = 1 point metric. I’d like to adopt the bulk of the All pro league’s scoring preferably.
At 25 players per team we’re looking at 300 players total. At 20 players per team that drops to 240.
Figure 12 kickers, 18 defenses and 24 QBs will be permanently on somebody’s roster, tops. The rest will be used as floaters. That’s 54 spots, leaving either 246 or 186 players.
With 32 teams, the top 8 scorers on every NFL team will be on somebody’s roster. With 210 that drops to 6. (Both numbers approximate.)
That means if we use a 20 main roster, for all 32 NFL teams the following players will be on somebody’s fantasy roster:
2 RBs
3 WRs
1 TE
With a 25 man roster I guess you’d add in a fourth receiver, and then everyone would be filling the last spot with the best RB3/WR5/TE2 they could find. I don’t really see that as a bonus, but that’s just my opinon. I mean, I truly don’t care if Jason Witten’s backup is a free agent compared to being on somebody’s bench, y’know?
You’re viewing it in terms of who’s currently productive, though - the extra bench slots allow for developmental players who aren’t putting up any points now but you think based on your draft/college football knowledge or team knowledge they’ll be valuable and productive next year, or 2 years from now. I think 300 players drafted is probably about right.
I don’t think we’d be that deep at WR - that’s 32*5=160 more than half of our players would be WRs. I think you’re underestimating the amount of non-WR players that will be kept on rosters - more than 32 QBs will be drafted (current starters, plus backups with potential), all 32 defenses will be drafted (and then played matchups), probably the same for kickers.
I don’t think there will be that many WRs “worth hanging onto”, but that’s part of the point of the league - there will be plenty of misses, with those who drafted well having fewer of them.
You’re expecting 8 owners to draft three defenses each, with the other 4 standing pat with two? I can’t imagine ever drafting a third defense.
Three kickers? For real? So the final three rounds of the draft will be nothing but wall to wall kickers?
Maybe if you outlined what you imagine a typical fantasy rosterwould look like – positions only, no player names – I would have a better grasp of what to expect.
Three kickers - no. Three defenses? Sure. I like to keep multiple defenses (or pick them off the waiver wire) every week and they’re probably my favorite fantasy “player” to play matchups with. I would keep more in regular leagues, but with the shallow benches that’s not practical.
I don’t know what a typical roster would look like because I’ve never played in a league this deep, but if I had to take a guess:
QB x 3
RB x 7-9
WR x 8-10
TE x 2
K x 1-2
DEF x 2-3
Using the low end of those numbers would give a roster of 24 players. If everyone averaged that roster, we’d have 36 QBs taken, 84-108 RBs, 96-120 WRs, 24 TEs, 12 Ks, 24 DEFs.
Talent would be spread very thin, but that’s the goal. It’s all about good drafting. The majority of RBs and WRs in the league would be drafted, and of course not every one of them would be worth keeping over the years, most players flame out in the NFL. And so the people who drafted the best (and traded for the best) would end up having the benches that turned into productive players, which is the point I thought. Instead of scouring the waiver wire in mid-season for productive players, you’d have to try to find gems in the draft.
Let me pull out of my ass what an actual roster may look like - the values/projected rounds may not be perfect but I tried to make it a reasonably realistic roster.
QB - Matt Ryan - main starter with excellent future value
QB - Trent Edwards - lower tier QB
QB - Tavaris Jackson - showed some improvement, but won’t have much value this year most likely, but may be a future starter
RB Michael Turner T1 RB
RB Marion Barber T2 RB
RB Lendale White T4 RB
RB Jerious Norwood third down back, backup, and return yards
RB Jamaal Charles LJ’s backup
RB Antonio Pittman SJ’s backup
RB Glenn Coffee Gore’s backup
RB Patrick Cobbs gets some RBBC carries in Miami
WR Roddy White T2 wr
WR Braylon Edwards T3 WR
WR Derrick Mason T4 WR
WR Steve Breaston T4 WR
WR Mark Clayton T5 WR
WR Jeremy Maclin promising rookie in a pass happy offense
WR Hakim Nicks first round pick for a quality team
WR Jabar Gaffney journeyman who puts up decent numbers as a 3-4 WR
WR Shaun McDonald still a young guy, has shown promise
TE Chris Cooley - T2 TE
TE Mercedes Lewis developing guy with potential
K Rian Lindell
DEF Philadelphia - starter defense
DEF San Francisco - defense with potential, can play matchups with it
That seems like a reasonable roster to me. It may be stacked a little too in favor of rounds 8-15 players and not enough 16-25 players, but I just pulled it out of my ass.
Reviewing that roster, it’s probably weighted a bit more towards currently productive mid and lower tier players than I’d personally draft. I’d probably pick more low production/high upside players behind aging starters and more rookies. But it gives some idea of what a roster could look like.
I’m not set on 25 players per roster as a number. I’m fine with debating it. But it seems like a reasonable starting point for this type of league.
Thanks for the later clarification, since this made me think you were crazy. heh.
The RB and WR platoons seem excessive to me, especially when you consider that not even all 32 starting TEs are drafted in your scenario. Changing one of the WRs to a WR/TE would help correct for that, though.
The basic goal of this league is to prevent anyone from ever using the waiver wire or signing a free agent, yes?
I wouldn’t say that was the goal. There will probably be a lot of free agent/waiver pickups if only because with a 25 man roster you’ll players who are injured or who you expected to be somewhat productive (maybe a returner/3rd down rb type player) who isn’t meeting your expectations. The free agent pool will indeed be thin, and we may not see any sleepers that come out of nowhere - every year has their surprise players, but most of them will be drafted in this league rather than picked up as a free agent.
I would like to see the talent pool at free agent so thin that if we do a combined free agent/rookie draft, the top picks are dominated by rookies.
So no, I’m not against free agents in general - but I do think it will be interesting that when we find out who this year’s surprises are, it’ll be the guy who thought to draft him, rather than the guy who had the #1 waiver priority at that moment, who gets them. And I’d like to look at my roster now and 3 years from now and see how my developmental players became my starters because of good choices I made.
Edit: and I like that if you draft by some consensus rankings list you may not get a great draft because the long term oriented view in this league changes the value of young and old players (or players who are on unproductive bad teams now that will soon be free agents, etc) - you have to put some thought into it rather than just consulting a list.
Sorry I’ve been lax here. I had my live fantasy draft, complete with travel, so I was away (Here’s hoping I can survive with Schaub and Palmer as my QBs). For the regions, I’m in the Midwest, St. Louis to be specific.
As to the roster, I’m good with anything from 20-25, but I would like a required TE and a flex spot.
**Hamlet **is in St. Louis and **Stringer is in Chicago. Going by region, then, I guess there are a couple of ways to organize:
**
1.
BosWash / Northeast Corridor
VarlosZ – New York, NY
Justin_Bailey – Upstate New York
Ellis Dee – SW Connecticut
furt – Orlando/DC
Midwest
Stringer – Chicago
Hamlet – St. Louis
RetroVertigo – St. Louis
The Mad Hermit – Pittsburgh
Sun Belt
RNATB – Florida
Petey – Ft. Lauderdale, FL
SenorBeef – Las Vegas NV
dalej42 – Phoenix (?), AZ 2.
Cold People
VarlosZ – New York, NY
Justin_Bailey – Upstate New York
Ellis Dee – SW Connecticut
Stringer – Chicago
Confederate Sympathizers
RNATB – Florida
Petey – Ft. Lauderdale, FL
furt – Orlando/DC
The Mad Hermit – Pittsburgh
West of the Mississip
Hamlet – St. Louis
RetroVertigo – St. Louis
SenorBeef – Las Vegas NV
dalej42 – Phoenix (?), AZ
**
3.**
Or we can organize by some method other than regionally.
Post your thoughts, but we don’t have all that long to decide. Also note that division names above are just placeholders. Anyone who can come up with something snappier should do so.
Then there’s the question of starting rosters. At present we have:
QB
WR
WR
WR
RB
RB
TE
K
DEF
The options are:
Make no changes.
Add a WR/TE flex spot.
Add a RB/WR/TE flex spot.
Convert a RB slot into a RB/WR flex spot.
Convert a WR slot into a RB/WR/ spot.
Convert a WR slot into a WR/TE spot, and a RB slot into a RB/WR slot.
This isn’t exactly a vote, but the more people who way in, the better. We want to have a decision in a few days, though.
As for scoring, I envisioned it tracking the All-Pro League scoring *pretty *closely (linked by SenorBeef upthread), minus the bonuses for yardage plateaus. I’m not going to list 37 different options, but anyone with substantial objections or interesting ideas should speak up soon.
I’m a big fan of flex slots, but I think giving someone the oppurtunity to field 4 RBs would give teams with even a halfway decent running game a huge advantage.
I know this isn’t a vote, but I’d definitely vote for number two, a WR/TE slot would add a little more depth to the dynasty game and might even encourage trading as good TEs are hard to come by.
I like that, except for the RB/WR flex. Nobody is going to start a wideout over a back except in some nightmare injury/bye week scenario. On the other hand, I guess it doesn’t hurt.