Sdmb mafia

[JSexton]

@Santo_Rugger

I can’t see your sig line, but when I said you had them in your pocket, I didn’t mean you had researched them specifically to be able to recall them. I meant that you had them in your back pocket, in your toolbox, in your bag of tricks. Things that you’d done before as town that worked that you can now do as scum and say, “Hey, look, I did this as Town!”

I’m pretty sure you knew that’s what I meant, though.

Actually, I thought you meant the former. I see what you’re saying though: that I planned a defense rooted in WIFOM, as in “I do this as town, therefore by doing this now I must be town.”

But that’s not what I was getting at at all, actually just the inverse. There is no point in doing this as scum. None. It draws heat and attention, something scum avoid. And what’s the upside? I might learn one player’s ability? There’s better ways to fish for abilities than something like that. I’m certainly not getting any town cred out of it. And I run the risk of simply getting lynched, either from angry players or from the sudden deadline.

@Zeriel

I still think ok11 has enough to be suspicious of, but at this point the evasions and gambitry of JSexton is catching my eye as well–frankly, I don’t know how he expects us to verify that his example applies, since we can’t see what he saw at the time.

Evasions? I take exception to that. Where have I evaded a question? I’ve answered everything posed to me to the best of my ability.

[Santo_Rugger]

@JSexton

But that’s not what I was getting at at all, actually just the inverse. There is no point in doing this as scum. None. It draws heat and attention, something scum avoid. And what’s the upside? I might learn one player’s ability? There’s better ways to fish for abilities than something like that. I’m certainly not getting any town cred out of it. And I run the risk of simply getting lynched, either from angry players or from the sudden deadline.

And now you’re using the “scum would never do that” defense. I’m not impressed.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@JSexton

Yeah, it is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. However, it’s slightly different, as I was mixing up two somewhat similar names, whereas Boozaholic has simply forgotten that Oredigger was a claimed mason. Doesn’t Diomedes/Boozaholic usually take copious notes as town? Or am I mistaken about that?

No. I’m a live-game player, mostly. I don’t take notes. Got myself well lynched (as a townie) in the most recent off-board game for it.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

Voting someone because you disagree with their playstyle is not a good way to find scum. Voting scomeone because you can demonstrate a scum motivation for their actions is a much better idea.

I don’t know if we’ve actually ever played a game together, so I don’t really know what your playstyle is. However, I just don’t see the pro-town motivation for your gambit, without some sort of explanation. The defense of ‘this would be a bad ploy for scum to take, given the risks’ seems to be a very weak defense, given that you’ve come up blank, seems rather weak.

Voting for someone because you can’t see pro-town motivations behind it is a reasonable way to vote. I don’t expect scum to come dancing out to show themselves, our masons are out in the open, and we’ve lost our Cop. It’s the best hope I have to find scum: finding players whose motives are suspicious.

You’re still numberone on my list for that.

[Total_Lost]

@Zsofia

What? Excuse you? That is NOT, in my opinion, very pro-town. What if the day ended in 48 hours and I had a connection problem?

unvote ok11
vote JSexton

I like the gambit-idea. I would not have done it like that myself - but I think it was a nice way to see how a lot of players would react.
And I really like it, when a new “trick” is tried.

Not liking the idea is one thing - but I still think you should explain WHY you don’t like it. A the “NOT pro-town”-reason for a vote (that might lynch JSexton) is a bit week.
So untill I find someone else to vote for I’ll go:

VOTE ZSOFIA

[ShadowFacts]

Well, I’ve caught up on the whole **JSexton **gambit, and I’m getting the opposite read than most others so far. It looks to me like a veteran stab that failed, and I suspect there are some scum who are voting for him because he’s an easy target for doing something out of the box.

I’m particularly interested to see **Santo Rugger’s **response, which is completely at odds with his attitude in the T-2 game (he was Town), where he said:

@Santo Rugger in the T-2 game

I’m the most suspicious Vanilla out here, because I’ve been trying this whole game to come up with novel ideas to get a leg up for the town. And for what? Novel ideas are looked down upon in our circle. I have no idea why, I’ve done it in the past. But I finally feel the frustration of those novel ideaists who have their ideas squashed via lynch just because their slightly unorthodox ideas don’t conform to straightforward gameplay.

(bolding mine)

Care to explain your change of heart, Santo?

[Zsofia]

@Total_Lost

I like the gambit-idea. I would not have done it like that myself - but I think it was a nice way to see how a lot of players would react.
And I really like it, when a new “trick” is tried.

Not liking the idea is one thing - but I still think you should explain WHY you don’t like it. A the “NOT pro-town”-reason for a vote (that might lynch JSexton) is a bit week.
So untill I find someone else to vote for I’ll go:

VOTE ZSOFIA

While I don’t generally care for absolute pronouncements, there’s a lot to be said for the “lynch all liars” concept. Is this kind of gambit (assuming it’s town, which I don’t really) a lie? Well, yes, in that it’s intended to convince your ostensible team members to believe something that isn’t true.

Also, see what I said upthread about why I just don’t trust the gambit excuse - it doesn’t really even prove anything, chances of getting a “hit” are slim (you could probably come up with the same FOS-ish kind of tells on anybody at this point) and generally it would obviously, one way or the other, take discussion away from any real scum-finding efforts. As, you can see, it has.

[Stanislaus]

Regarding JSexton’s bluff: there are four possible cases: Both are scum; only JSexton is scum; only OK11 is scum; both are town.

Both Scum: Had OK11 confessed, this would have been a more or less straightforward bussing. But, of course, she didn’t, and JSexton admitted the bluff. So is this a reverse-bussing? Is the plan that JSexton gets caught in his bluff, fails to convince us and so somehow renders OK11 trustworthy? This is highly unlikely.

JSex Scum, OK Town: What’s the plan here? JSexton gets us to lynch townie OK11, so we immediately kill him tomorrow? I know people really don’t like “scum would never do this” but can we go for “scum would never even consider this”? It would be one thing if they’d somehow pegged OK11 as being some sort of scary town power role, but finding power-roles is not an issue for scum. Similarly, if the plan was to provoke a role-claim, why bother? We’re handing out plenty of those on our own. The odds of actually hitting a big power-role with this strategy are pretty small, after all.

JSex Town, OK Scum: So the bluff was all he said it was; OK11 played it beautifully.

JSex Town; OK Town: As above, except all reactions were natural, not faked.

JSexton did keep the pressure up over several posts, and I tend to think that scum would have acted more nervously, either by being over-defensive or assaying a fake claim, but that’s a question of judgement.

In either case, I tend to think it unlikely that JSexton is scum, simply because I don’t see the need for scum to try such a complex maneouvre when they’re under no pressure whatsoever.

However - I can only be wrong. So could all those voting for JSexton explain which of the two scenarios where he’s scum they think apply, and what the scum plan was?

[ok11]

Still no idea for whom I’d vote if/when Blaster Master comes back and posts. However, I think it’s time for divine intervention:

Og, could you please poke Blaster Master? We miss him

[Fretful_Porpentine]

Fretful, townies in this game have their life to lose quite frequently by sticking their neck out with strong suspicions or gambits–we almost ALWAYS jump on the people who are talking a lot as much as we do on the lurkers on the first day.

Yeah, but townies without power roles are basically cannon fodder until the endgame. You don’t have that much to lose by sticking your neck out if you’re just a warm body and your side is in the majority. Conversely, there are only a handful of scum, and the fewer there are, the more valuable they are to their side.

Thus, I’m reasoning that bold, attention-getting plays that can backfire easily are far more likely to come from vanilla or near-vanilla townies than anybody else. (Also, I basically agree with amrussell’s reasoning, with the caveat that if scum had a VERY good reason to think that ok11 was PFK, it might actually be a brilliant play.)

[Hero_From_Sector_7G]

I’m no Og, but maybe my vote will let him know that we are serious about participation.

Vote Blaster Master

I have my suspicions about other players and am more inclined to vote for them, however, this is ridiculous combined yesterday’s performance.

[One_And_Only_Wanderers]

@JSexton

Not random. Re-reading during night, I had a hunch. It’s unfortunate that I blundered by mixing up Oredigger and ok11, but I’m still pleased with the result. ok11 is now on my “strongly town” list. I thought it had a better than even chance of bagging scum. It’s worked before, and I can provide links if you want.

Jsexton

Can you explain this please? Are you saying you had meant to pull your ‘gambit’ on oredigger? Or that you pulled it on ok11 because of a post you read that you thought penned by ok was in fact penned by Oredigger?

[MHaye]

@ok11

Still no idea for whom I’d vote if/when Blaster Master comes back and posts. However, I think it’s time for divine intervention:

Og, could you please poke Blaster Master? We miss him

The Silence of the BlaM has been noted, and contact already initiated to attempt to return him to the fold.

[JSexton]

@Zsofia

While I don’t generally care for absolute pronouncements, there’s a lot to be said for the “lynch all liars” concept. Is this kind of gambit (assuming it’s town, which I don’t really) a lie? Well, yes, in that it’s intended to convince your ostensible team members to believe something that isn’t true.

I didn’t lie, though. Nothing I said was untrue. Was it calculated to deceive? Yes, to a point, and for a very specific purpose. I wasn’t trying to deceive everyone, though, just ok11, and just long enough to elicit a reaction. I think that’s a pretty crucial difference.

Also, see what I said upthread about why I just don’t trust the gambit excuse - it doesn’t really even prove anything, chances of getting a “hit” are slim (you could probably come up with the same FOS-ish kind of tells on anybody at this point) and generally it would obviously, one way or the other, take discussion away from any real scum-finding efforts. As, you can see, it has.

Has it, though? Haven’t several people given off some interesting reactions? Hasn’t it generated some discussion that could find scum?

[JSexton]

@One_And_Only_Wanderers

Jsexton

Can you explain this please? Are you saying you had meant to pull your ‘gambit’ on oredigger? Or that you pulled it on ok11 because of a post you read that you thought penned by ok was in fact penned by Oredigger?

You may just be behind in your reading, but I’ll clarify anyway. I read up, during the night, on the thread. I had notes about ok11 and planned to gambit in the morning on her. When dawn broke, I glanced at my notes and conflated those two names, so that when I launched my attack, it was aimed at the wrong person, oredigger. I didn’t realize it until someone (Santo, I think) expressed bafflement at my target. That’s when it hit me, and I corrected myself.

[ok11]

@Hero_From_Sector_7G

I have my suspicions about other players and am more inclined to vote for them, however, this is ridiculous combined yesterday’s performance.

Then could you please share some of those suspicions with us? It’s better not to put discussion on hold while we await the return of Blaster Master.

[Hero_From_Sector_7G]

@MHaye

The Silence of the BlaM has been noted, and contact already initiated to attempt to return him to the fold.

Oh, well I’m not going to lynch players that have run into real life. MHaye can we get a replacement?

unvote Blaster Master

Being that we are closing in on the 48 hour mark I’m going to lay down my initial suspicion. I’m incredibly busy today so won’t be around as much, but I’ll check back later tonight.

vote Zerial. Your pursuit of me yesterday combined with your votes today has me suspicious of you. It feels like you are throwing us against the wall seeing who sticks, sometimes with reasons that are contrary to the posts. You don’t seem to be worried about carefully using your vote, and to me that seems scummy.

[Pleonast]

NBC : 6 (Santo Rugger, Hal Briston, Pedescribe, Zeriel, JSexton, Nanook o/t North Shore)
Nanook o/t North Shore : 5 (BS PI, Hero from Sector 7G, Peekercpa, Oredigger77, NBC)
DiggitCamara : 2 (ok11, ShadowFacts)
Hero from Sector 7G : 2 (One and Only Wanderers, Total Lost)
Zeriel : 2 (Kat, amrussell)
Kat : 1 (Zsofia)
peekercpa : 1 (Fretful Porpentine)
ok11 : 1 (DiggitCamara)

Colors: Unknown, Town, Scum

[One_And_Only_Wanderers]

@JSexton

You may just be behind in your reading, but I’ll clarify anyway. I read up, during the night, on the thread. I had notes about ok11 and planned to gambit in the morning on her. When dawn broke, I glanced at my notes and conflated those two names, so that when I launched my attack, it was aimed at the wrong person, oredigger. I didn’t realize it until someone (Santo, I think) expressed bafflement at my target. That’s when it hit me, and I corrected myself.

Cheers, so ok11 was always your intended target, which makes more sense than other wise. I was indeed a page behind when I composed that post.

[Pleonast]

I’m very busy again (house I’m buying is now in escrow), so forgive my less the usual participation.

I’m trying to decide on JSexton. His gambit is aggressive, but I can’t convince myself of his motivation. More useful, I think, is how others reacted to him. I’ll see if I can find anything interesting in those.