Well, we’re worried about what happens when we vote for him, right? I am, anyway. If he’s PFK, the scum probably are too. So I’m thinking that we need to come to the understanding that 1) everybody votes for him, or 2) we ask the Masons to put together a random list of players to vote for him (said list being enough players to ensure a majority vote).
I’m trying to avoid a situation where we wake up Tomorrow and find him still alive, and spend the Day discussing what to do about him. I’d much rather have a plan of action hammered out now, while there’s time to debate it.
The part I don’t understand is how this is advantageous? Presumably, the Masons don’t know who our most powerful roles are any better than the rest of us.
I think the idea there is to safeguard ourselves against the possibility that something bad happens to someone on Nanook’s lynching wagon, first, last, third, whatever. By having Masons organize the roster, it minimizes the ability of scum to avoid being in the crosshairs of a possible Princess role.
Regarding the possibility of a Jester, the town is almost always told of the Jester’s presence. We can’t be paralyzed by that remote possibility.
If we’re not going to mass vote, then who is to determine who votes and who doesn’t? I’d rather not leave the issue in doubt. Trusting the Masons to provide an unbiased list seems a reasonable compromise.
Unless the condition is first, last, third, whatever, I don’t understand how the Masons would be any better than the rest of us at picking who shouldn’t have to vote. I think either everybody should have to, or nobody. Masons probably won’t include themselves, increasing the likelyhood of a bomb affecting somebody more powerful than themselves. If they exclude anybody else, there’s a good likelyhood they’ll exclude scum, further narrowing the pool.
I might be being dense, but I don’t see Masons having the keen instinct that would make this plan at all advantageous.
The Masons are just a replacement for Rysto’s ‘determine order by hockey scores’ deal. We know they won’t cheat in favo of scum because they’re not scum.
Do you want to watch all those hockey games in order to set up the list?
Well, maybe I’m being dense. The point is, you all don’t know that I’m not scum, and you can’t trust that any list I submit is going to be truly random, and the same goes for you, or any other J. Random Player. We’re as sure as we can be at this point that our claimed masons are not scum, so if they give a list that they say is random, we can trust that it’s random. I’m not suggesting that they try to load it with scum, or that they leave themselves out of consideration, I’m just suggesting that by requiring everybody on the list to vote, in the order provided (good idea, J), we make sure that scum and PFK come in for their fair share of any risk that voting for Nanook may entail.
I agree that simpler plan would be to mandate a mass vote, and that’d be my preference.
I understand why we need to randomize when we’re claiming, which is what Rysto’s method was used for. But unless the specific order matters, then why does it matter? What I’m trying to say (I think I already said) is, it should be either everybody or nobody. I don’t think selectively picking a few people will be advantageous. That, and 48 hours won’t be enough time for everybody to check in and vote in their proper order.
Okay, here’s my view on PIS. Sometimes it’s there, and a lot of times it’s nothing. It has happened, even to the best of us, where we have special roles and accidently let a little bit of information that we sort of take for granted slip through. Other times, it’s just an assumption someone has made, or a poor phrasing of words, or any number of things. The point is, the phrase that made me pause could very clearly stick out as having additional information.
Fair enough, I missed that. I’m willing to concede that there is a reasonable explanation for this apparent PIS, and thus I’ll drop it.
I wasn’t satisfied with your original answer, that’s why I pressed. Something coming up in real life is just fine, it happens to all of us. When it affects timing, just say so. I’ve said many times in many previous games that I trust that people will not attempt to use meta-gaming reasons to avoid suspicion, because it’s against the spirit of the game. I’ll trust you if you say life got in the way.
Well, it might be difficult to get everyone to vote in time. It also spends a lot of time not doing anything else. If not everyone votes, then there’s an opportunity for scum to be disproportionately underrepresented on the voting tally.
However.
If we’ve decided that Nanook needs to be lynched, as opposed to being tested tomorrow, then presumably it’s out of fear that he has a nightkill or other nefarious activity, and we don’t want to allow him to use it toNight. Given that, why aren’t we simply lynching him toDay instead?
(I realize this sounds self-serving, since I’m on the block at the moment.) Think about what I suggested, though, and the logic of preventing Nanook from having even a single night in which to act. There’s nothing stopping you from lynching me tomorrow, after all.
(no offence GREAT Og)… but why would a MOD suddenly post a link regarding a role (in this case Nanook)?? it seems to me [sorry metagaming] a mod that has something up the sleeve and don’t what a role taken out before it has shown what it can do [/metagaming]
(sorry - can’t stop the mategaming… I can’t help thinking of the T2 where Sarah Connor never really made the mess “she” could have…)
You’re missing the point. You dropped the “breadcrumb” before ANY of the masons claimed, thus any of this reasoning about thinking the claimed masons may have been lying is post hoc. This is a tactic I’ve used many times as scum, where I do one thing, new information comes up, my motivations change, and I don’t get questioned about my motivation until after the circumstances have changed. IF you had dropped a potential crumb AFTER information was available about how the masons worked, I could see this as your motivation. However, BEFORE that, all there was was a potential mason crumb, and no reason to believe it worked any different than it usually does.
I recall reading a post after all the masons claimed in which Pedescribe said even he believed you were a mason.
No, I’m calling a scum gambit on you for dropping the breadcrumb in the first place before any of the masons were revealed, not for trying to trap potentially lying masons after the mechanic of their power was revealed.
You have not given me a clue as to what any sort of pro-town motivation would be for dropping a mason breadcrumb when all indications are at that point that the masons work as usual, already know who eachother are, and will look suspiciously at anyone who may be trying to feign masonry for a later claim.
I can’t speak for the group but at least my answer to this is that his vote for himself shouldn’t count, in which case we are able to get a two-for today. If we switch over there may not be enough time for him to garner enough votes to die but it may be enough for him to live through the night by adding a new vote to him.
That being said I’m not entirely happy with our two main lynch candidates and since my vote has already been on him it should allow him to survive so I can be convinced to change directions.
If my hunch is correct, we’ll get plenty of information to take a closer look at Nanook tomorrow. First, we’ll have a pretty good idea as to whether or not we have a Vig, as the scum don’t have a good reason to take him out, nor does an SK, but it’s clearly a pro-town move for a Vig. Second, we’ll probably have a pretty good idea about whether Nanook is an SK or not. I suspect it’s most likely that he can only kill people who voted for him that Day, but it may also be possible that he can kill anyone that voted for him at all (hence why he wants different people to vote for him each Day).
Either way, we should wait until Tomorrow to see what evidence we have and see whether we think we can just leave him and wait for the scum to take him out or if we need to lynch him.