Sdmb mafia

[ok11]

I’m having a hard time deciding whether Zeriel, Hal, both, or neither are scum. My opinion about them hasn’t changed much since I made post 864. I’s like to add though that I don’t consider Hal’s JSexton disclaimer suspicious. To me, the bussing comment seemed reasonable. Also, the expanded vote pattern seems to show that Hal wasn’t in too much danger of being banned, so I don’t think scum voted for JSexton to protect him. As a result, if I had to choose between Hal and Zeriel, I’d probably vote for Zeriel. But personally, I’d rather look at other people. So I’ll start with One And Only Wanderers, and hope to look at Total Lost’s posts later tonight.

One And Only Wanderers
(7 posts on Day 1)
Post 211 - What’s a PFK?
Post 212 – Votes for Hero From Sector 7G (“for no particular reason”)
Post 407 - Says his random vote for Hero From Sector 7G is now real (because he told the doctor whom to protect)
Post 414 - Disagrees with Pleonast about whether all masons should claim (says they shouldn’t, because it would narrow the pool for scum to find other power roles)
Post 417 - After Pleonast responds to the previous post, One And Only Wanderers says, “Fair enough, can’t fault your reasoning.”
Post 471 - Explains why his random vote stayed on Hero From Sector 7G
Post 576 - his take on Nanook (thinks he’s town or PFK, and prefers to test rather than lynch)
(8 posts on Day 2)
Post 700, 707 – fluff
Post 792 - Asks JSexton about confusing me and Oredigger77
Post 799 – After JSexton’s explanation, says he gets it now
Post 905 – Votes for me because my unofficial vote is suspicious; says he’s pro Nanook Mod-kill
Post 915 - Suspicious that Nanook’s role has a downside but no upside
Post 922, 928 – more talk about roles with only downsides

He hasn’t posted so far Today, but the Day is still young. What I’m getting from his posts is that he’s a lurker. He hasn’t commented at all about JSexton’s gambit, or any other top vote getters from yesterDay. He also didn’t comment much on various role claims from Day 1, except for Nanook. He didn’t say anything about DiggitCamara or NBC. So he hasn’t helped Town make any decisions except giving input about Nanook, who turned out to be a PFK, so scum had an interest in getting rid of Nanook as well.

So now, I’d like to hear from One And Only Wanderers. I asked you a question before about why your vote stayed on me. Now, I have a few more questions. During the first 2 Days, your vote stayed on people who weren’t in danger of getting banned at the end of the Day. Why did you consider them scummier than other players? What are your thoughts on Zeriel and Hal? Who is pinging you toDay? Is there something in RL preventing you from participating more, or is this just your style?

On preview, I see One And Only Wanderers posted and answered one of my questions.

[Total_Lost]

I’m a bit confused about Hero’s position right now

In this post Hero seems to say that we can’t read anything in to yesterDays votes when we look at JSexton, Hal and Zeriel all together.

@Hero_From_Sector_7G

I have seen all your posts. I think your argument against Hal doesn’t make sense when Zeriel is put in the mix. I agree with you that looking at the voting record makes sense, and I also agree with you that Hal appears scummy, but for different reasons. I made it clear yesterday when I called out Hal and **Zsofia ** for piling on the JSexton train. At that time, Zeriel also had a high vote count.

I read this as:
a) We can’t see Hal as scum based on the vote records if we put **Zeriel **in the mix
b) It makes sense to look at the voting record
c) Hal do look scummy because of Hals and Zsofias piling on the JSexton train.
d) Because Zeriel had a high vote count when c) occured

I don’t get it??
It is okay to draw a conclusion from the vote record but not if you think Hal is scummy unless you look at the vote records and the piling and the Hero goes to:

[QOUTE]
FOS Zeriel
FOS Hal Briston
FOS ShadowFacts
[/QUOTE]

Which just makes me even more confused - because I got a feeling the FOS on ShadowFacts was for looking at the vore records and the FOS on Zeriel and Hal Briston was based on the vote records and the piling on JSexton… but if piling on JSexton is more scummy then the votes on him (?) how would we get informations on who’s piling and not voting… unless we look at vote records??

[ShadowFacts]

@Hero_From_Sector_7G

Yesterday you never made it vocally clear that you were opposed to a JSexton lynch. You just attacked Hal. I’m getting an uneasy feeling from you because you are equating yesterday’s attack on Hal as a pro-town defense of JSexton. This combined with your complete lack of mentioning Zeriel feels like a mis-representation of what was really happening yesterday.

This is a lie. I posted in post 786 that I disagreed with those voting for **JSexton **for his “gambit,” saying:

@me

It looks to me like a veteran stab that failed, and I suspect there are some scum who are voting for him because he’s an easy target for doing something out of the box.

I then questioned **Santo **about his vote, which led to him eventually unvoting JSexton, as he affirmed earlier today.

In post 826 I make it clear that I believe some vote maneuvering is going on, keeping JSexton in the lead.

When **Nanook **voted for JSexton, I aggressively called him out for it in posts 891 and 910, and asked him to justify his vote in 916, to which he never responded (I wonder why?)

I spent almost all of yesterday expressing my disagreement with the **JSexton **lynch and questioning those voting for him that I found suspicious. The *majority *of my posts from yesterDay don’t even mention Hal’s name. That’s the truth, all there in black and white, and it is *you *who are trying to misrepresent. Why is that?

(I have to run right now, but I’ll be back to post my thoughts on **Zeriel **later.)

[ok11]

As promised, a look at Total Lost:

Total Lost made 10 posts on Day 1, 10 on Day 2, and I think 1 so far toDay. I didn’t comment on/link all of them, but here’s my take on her actions so far in this game. (I’m having a hard time organizing my ideas, so please bear with me.)

On Day 1, Total Lost talked for a while about using a random lurker strategy for her vote (see Kat’s post 403 for a summary, and why it looked suspicious). Here’s Total Lost’s response to Kat’s case against her. Total Lost didn’t implement that strategy, though, because she ended up voting for Hero From Sector 7G for the following reasons : (1)making the mason chain feel vulnerable, (2)fishing for info, and (3) not re-voting after unvoting. Considering that it’s Day 1, so far, so good. However, I do have a question about your third reason. Have you seen that Hero From Sector 7G revoted fairly quickly after he unvoted (but were still unhappy due to the ~3 hour gap), or did you miss the vote because of the coding mistake?

In posts 236 you say that Santo Rugger’s might not be town (you can see his power as being something else). How do you feel about it now? Do you think it’s more likely that Santo Rugger is pro-town or anti-town? In post 345 you quote Santo Rugger’s post where he asks you what you think his power might be. You don’t actually answer that question, though. Can you answer it now? Also, I don’t want to nitpick the wording too much, but the following sentence is kind of weird

I just wanted to make it clear that I did see the claim in anyway confirming you as town… at the time!

When you say “at the time,” you don’t mean “as opposed to now, when I do see that it confirms you,” right? Am I correct in thinking that the sentence means you think he should have claimed later?

In post 527 Total Lost votes for DiggitCamara (6th vote on him), because he didn’t explain his lack of participation. However, she doesn’t unvote him when he points out that he did explain his lack of participation. Total Lost unvotes DiggitCamara after his role claim, but doesn’t specify her reasons, or votes for someone else. I don’t think that’s particularly scummy, because the reason for unvote is kind of obvious, and she explains that she’s in a hurry.

However, Total Lost, it’s a bit inconsistent that a part of the reason you voted for Hero From Sector 7G was his lack of revote, and yet you do the same thing. Also, when Hero From Sector 7G didn’t revote, it was less risky because 48 hours weren’t up yet. Your unvote, on the other hand, happened when we were in sudden-death mode. I’m not really suspicious of you for this, but it makes me wonder whether you were still holding Hero From Sector 7G’s unvote against him, or no longer considered it as bad.

In post 573 Total Lost goes back to voting for Hero From Sector 7G, because he’s the only one who looks like scum (by process of eliminating other leading candidates).

On Day 2, Total Lost is kind of quiet at first. She votes for Zsofia in post 785, until she finds someone else to vote for. In that post, she says she liked JSexton’s gambit, and wants Zsofia to give a better explanation for her JSexton vote (explain why she didn’t like the gambit). When Zsofia explained her stance, Total Lost didn’t unvote. Why? Is it because you didn’t like the answer, because you didn’t think anyone else looked scummy, or for some other reason?

She makes several other posts, making comments about Nanook, saying she likes fun (sorry, I don’t know how to summarize it better), and metagaming a bit. Those don’t look particularly scummy, except that they might be an attempt to “lurk in plain sight,” if I may steal someone else’s term.

Her post toDay about Hero From Sector 7G is a nice catch, and I’d like to see his response.

My overall impression so far is that Total Lost hasn’t done anything ban-worthy, but I’d still like to see her answer my questions.

[ok11]

@ok11

Total Lost made 10 posts on Day 1, 10 on Day 2, and I think 1 so far toDay.

Correction, “14 posts on Day 1”

[Hero_From_Sector_7G]

@Total_Lost

I’m a bit confused about Hero’s position right now

In this post Hero seems to say that we can’t read anything in to yesterDays votes when we look at JSexton, Hal and Zeriel all together.

I’ve been suspicious of Zeriel since day 1. It really pinged me that Shadow was going after Hal instead of Zeriel, when his reason was Hal was being protected. I didn’t see Hal as ever being on the line, and Zeriel was actually much closer. Looking at voting records is good, but not when it is done in a vacuum and a filter.

This has made me uneasy about Shadow.

[Santo_Rugger]

@amrussell

Well, I’m still suspicious of Zeriel, but here’s something else to be going on with. Following up on the vote-pattern analysis that has people looking at Hal and Pleo, as well as my question to Santo at the top of the page, here’s a faint pattern I think I’ve picked up.

Way back on Day One, I asked Hal a question when he seemed to have some information about the alignment of roles. Here’s the first answer I got:
Ok, maybe I’m dumb and it was perfectly obvious to everyone what Hal meant, but I thought it was odd that Santo answered for him. ToDay, I ask Santo a question and…

Aside from the glaring error in this, I don’t understand why Hal is rushing to defend Santo.

Give me a break. If something is obvious to one player while another player doesn’t understand it, it’s pretty commonplace to give the answer. What’s the point of waiting around for you to get your answer if I already know it, and we’re both online?

That is a serious question.

[Total_Lost]

@ok11

As promised, a look at Total Lost:

However, I do have a question about your third reason. Have you seen that Hero From Sector 7G revoted fairly quickly after he unvoted (but were still unhappy due to the ~3 hour gap), or did you miss the vote because of the coding mistake?

I did see him voted - but still felt he was triggering my scumbar. The 3 hours was not my only reason for the vote - but I felt strange to unvote and not vote straight away when Amrussell had ask everyone to be careful NOT doing that only 15 minutes before.

@ok11

How do you feel about it now? Do you think it’s more likely that Santo Rugger is pro-town or anti-town?

@ok11

In post 345 you quote Santo Rugger’s post where he asks you what you think his power might be. You don’t actually answer that question, though. Can you answer it now?

Santo Rugger is really hard for me to “read”. Right now I believe he might be pro-town… and the statement about the end of toDay might make me trust him a bit more… if it’s true and the Day ends after the time he stated. I dont’ dis-trust him at the moment (but I have a bad record of trying to figure out Santo Rugger - and really never trust him 100 % - sorry)

@ok11

Also, I don’t want to nitpick the wording too much, but the following sentence is kind of weird When you say “at the time,” you don’t mean “as opposed to now, when I do see that it confirms you,” right? Am I correct in thinking that the sentence means you think he should have claimed later?

This will get me in trouble someday - I have a REALLY bad habit og forgetting the “n’t” in “didn’t” :smack: - I meant to say:
“I just wanted to make it clear that I didn’t see the claim in anyway confirming you as town… at the time!”

My mistake - I didn’t see him as comfirmed when he made the claim and later on I didn’t have any reason to feel like that - other then the fact that I can’t “figure” Santo Rugger out.

@ok11

In post 527 Total Lost votes for DiggitCamara (6th vote on him), because he didn’t explain his lack of participation. However, she doesn’t unvote him when he points out that he did explain his lack of participation. Total Lost unvotes DiggitCamara after his role claim, but doesn’t specify her reasons, or votes for someone else. I don’t think that’s particularly scummy, because the reason for unvote is kind of obvious, and she explains that she’s in a hurry.

I really didn’t have time to read to much and it was all do to IRL. I know it’s a crappy reason - but I really felt I needed to unvote as soon as possible (had just got up and only had a few minutes in front of the computer before I had to drive to work)

@ok11

However, Total Lost, it’s a bit inconsistent that a part of the reason you voted for Hero From Sector 7G was his lack of revote, and yet you do the same thing. Also, when Hero From Sector 7G didn’t revote, it was less risky because 48 hours weren’t up yet. Your unvote, on the other hand, happened when we were in sudden-death mode. I’m not really suspicious of you for this, but it makes me wonder whether you were still holding Hero From Sector 7G’s unvote against him, or no longer considered it as bad.

I still get a scummy feeling from HERO - but feel I need to make a “case” before voting/fos’ing or even smudging. Just my feeling at the moment.

@ok11

When Zsofia explained her stance, Total Lost didn’t unvote. Why? Is it because you didn’t like the answer, because you didn’t think anyone else looked scummy, or for some other reason?

I was not sure who else to vote for - I really wanted a vote making it clear that I didn’t like the case against JSexton - but was unsure what to think of the other leading candidates. I was unsure that if i voted for - let’s say Zeriel - I would be playing into the hands of scum. If Zeriel was Town… my vote for her would have made it easy for scum to retract theirs on JSexton while still get a Town-lynch.

@ok11

My overall impression so far is that Total Lost hasn’t done anything ban-worthy, but I’d still like to see her answer my questions.

And I’m sorry to say that my overall impression of me is that I must pay more attention and take more time to read and re-read. I’m sorry that I have not put as much effort in to this game so far

[Rapier42]

@Boozahol_Squid_P.I

Knew he was a Troll! Now the only question is whether he died via his own death mechanism (his vote didn’t count), or if we actually have a Vig on our side. The color of the death suggests the former.

While it sucks to lose Pede… it’s probably best not to have a more powerful pro-town role.

Considering that we’ve had two deaths each Night, if we do have a Vig, acting Night One was poor play. I think it likelier that we’ve got somebody what wants us to think we’ve got a vig. Or scum that were just as scared of Nanook as the rest of us.

I don’t think it’s likely that Nanooks vote for himself didn’t count, or where’d the other kill go?

@Boozahol_Squid_P.I

All right. I know that this is probably a very weak reason to place a vote, and I may get excorciated for putting it down. But honestly, I don’t really buy the case made against Hal. I don’t even buy the case made against Zeriel by Kat and others for essentially being a little evasive, as being somewhat evasive is just part of the mindset made in this game (q.v., my weaselly little sentence opening this post). But right now we have what I feel is a goldmine of information from the vote trail yesterday, and not a lot of ways to reliably ‘crack’ into it.

Reliable discovery of Zeriel’s alignment would go a long ways in doing that, and I just don’t know where to go other than that.

Ban: Zeriel

This… wow, this just sucks. WAY too early in the game for an info-lynch. What on earth are you doing? I don’t know that I need to vote for you yet, I’d like to see you defend this. For now, I give you my patented Hairy Eyeball O’ Suspicion.

[Stanislaus]

@Santo_Rugger

Give me a break. If something is obvious to one player while another player doesn’t understand it, it’s pretty commonplace to give the answer. What’s the point of waiting around for you to get your answer if I already know it, and we’re both online?

That is a serious question.

Because this isn’t a trivia quiz and it’s not facts we’re dealing in. You gave me your *interpretation *of Hal’s post, which was fine and apparently turned out to be right. But I was kind of interested in getting an *unmediated *reply from Hal. If you answer for another player, you’re putting words in their mouth. Which could either help them look good or make them look bad. But either way, unless it’s incredibly time-sensitive, you’re adding noise as well as signal.

But I didn’t think very much of it at all, until toDay, when I asked you a question and Hal answered. And I got a faint inkling that the two of you were talking for one another.

[Stanislaus]

As I’ve been pushing **Santo **a bit toDay, it’s probably only fair to explain where I’m coming from at this point in the game.

Pedescribe’s death confirmed me as town. It also suggested that I am going to die either this Night or the Next. (Assuming no higher-value targets present themselves). Given this, as **Oredigger **suggested, I am posting pretty much everything I think. Some of it will be mistaken. Some of it may be contradictory. But as no-one can think that I am scum out to throw mud, I hope it will be taken as an honest record of my thoughts on the game - what strikes me as interesting or deserving of comment.

Whether you think it’s worth a cup of warm spit is, of course, up to you.

[ok11]

@Blaster_Master

Come to think of it, this may have some significance, or it may not. We really have no idea what Nanook’s powers were or what his goal was. Maybe Zeriel is his PFK partner and he was trying to save her? I can’t imagine this was saving **Hal[/B ]at all since he was already seemingly saved.

First of all, Zeriel is male. Second, I doubt that PFK roles are partners, because in the first post Og said:

Elsewhere, two individuals sat quietly, separately considering their options. Each didn’t want the new regime nor the old, rather they had different things in mind. The time was right to strike.

(Bolding mine)

Also from that first post we find out that this game is Loyal Doper vs. Mark Wit. Although Mark Wit is included on the list of possible roles, I think that it’s not a person, but a place – the Snark Pit. With that in mind, I’d like you to take a look at Santo Rugger’s post 346

You know, or will find out soon enough, that Terry, and therefore likely the other names that simply have a transposed spelling of one of TPTB (The Powers That Be), are Town

That doesn’t seem likely anymore, so I agree with Boozahol Squid, P.I’s reply in post 349

I don’t think confirmation of you as a pro-town power will say anything else about the status of pseudo-Cecil or Ed.

Having said that, the name alone doesn’t make me suspicious of Santo Rugger, and unless the Day ends before 3pm tomorrow, I won’t be voting for him anytime soon. Santo answering for Hal and vice versa doesn’t seem particularly strange to me.

I will most likely vote for One And Only Wanderers today, but if he provides good answers to my questions I’ll pick someone else. Also, I hope Zeriel posts something today, because otherwise we might have the same potential Mod kill problem as we had yesterDay with Blaster Master.

[Zsofia]

Well, right now it looks like we have a lot of potential targets but not a lot of new stuff to go on. Currently the scummiest thing I can actually point a finger at (as opposed to just gut feelings) is that back and forth between Hal and JSexton yesterDay. For now I’ll

ban Hal Briston

[Hawkeyeop]

Don’t everyone vote at once now.

Zerial: 2 (Kat, Boozahol)
Hal Briston: 2 (ShadowFacts, Zsofia)
Boozahol: 1 (Santo)

[Oredigger77]

@amrussell

Pedescribe’s death confirmed me as town. It also suggested that I am going to die either this Night or the Next. (Assuming no higher-value targets present themselves). Given this, as **Oredigger **suggested, I am posting pretty much everything I think. Some of it will be mistaken. Some of it may be contradictory. But as no-one can think that I am scum out to throw mud, I hope it will be taken as an honest record of my thoughts on the game - what strikes me as interesting or deserving of comment.

I was planning a summary post tonight and while** am **has been doing a great job of getting his thoughts down I just haven’t made up my mind on anything. I would like to have a good case built but I got busy today. Hopefully Santo’s right and I’ll have time tomarrow, should be able to first thing in the morning.

[Oredigger77]

@Hawkeyeop

Don’t everyone vote at once now.

Just so I have a vote down I’ll use my previous case and Vote Hal

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@Rapier42

This… wow, this just sucks. WAY too early in the game for an info-lynch. What on earth are you doing? I don’t know that I need to vote for you yet, I’d like to see you defend this. For now, I give you my patented Hairy Eyeball O’ Suspicion.

Too early in the game? While I don’t like the idea of an info lynch, that’s essentially what all lynches are in the beginning of the game. What the hell’s a Day One lynch other than a way for the town to draw early lines, and to establish a voting record for later lynches? Yesterday’s lynch was something completely other than an info lynch, I would stipulate, because it was a way of enforcing the pro-Town ideal of Lynch-All-Liars. While it sucks that JSexton turned out to be Town, what we’ve done is set a firm precedent that will deter scum from trying similar tricks.

Today, however, we don’t have any such scandals. What we do have is a very interesting lynch that went down yesterday that looks to have been influenced by one or more factors. Between ok11, Zeriel, Pleonast and Hal Briston, and Shadowfacts, I think we have at least two scum. At this point in the game, Zeriel has generated enough consistent heat that if she’s Town, the scum aren’t going to kill her, and she’s going to remain an object of contention for quite a while, and a reasonable target for a lynch based on the attention she got yesterday.

There are four ways of catching scum: special roles, scum-slips (i.e. misposts that should have gone on a scumboard, or referring to the town in the third person), analysis of logical inconsistencies, and vote-analysis. I feel strongly that if we know more about who was whom in yesterday’s events, we can exercise the fourth option to take down some scum. Zeriel was one of the stars of that whole fandango, and is a reasonable place to start.

[Kat]

@Oredigger77

Just so I have a vote down I’ll use my previous case and Vote Hal

Any chance you could copy or link to your previous case?

[Fretful_Porpentine]

On looking over ShadowFacts’s timeline, I’m inclined to say that Pleonast’s vote looks like the most suspicious of the lot. I don’t know whether he’s more likely to be protecting Hal or Zeriel, but if either of them is scum, this vote came at a crucial point, and the “You mischaracterized Hal’s comment” justification seemed distinctly thin.

Vote Pleonast.

[Zeriel]

Bah. So far this Day is giving me a headache.

Point Zero: I’M A HE. Crikey, it’s hard to follow when people refer to me as she.

Point One: Kat, lose your hard-on, okay? I re-read to catch up, and Hero’s clarified position was clarified, so I unvoted.

Thoughts:
I really don’t like Boozy’s mischaracterization of Santo’s claim, but it’s too easily checked to be a scum slip. Null tell.
Santo’s “partial claim” was kinda funny though given then 7/8 chance of it going the way he claimed it would.
I never really felt like I was getting “saved” yesterday. Frankly, I’m never sure why so many people latch onto my playing style as scummy.
Hal’s still Hal, and he hasn’t said anything yet today to change my opinion of him from yesterDay. Vote Hal Briston. The rest of this can wait until tomorrow for me to read, because frankly I have had zero time this weekend to play (this is a fairly big flaw, IMHO, in the variable-day-length system).