SDMB Team Fortress 2 server

Actually, Splines, a very very skilled Spy can use the Saharan Spy set up to reduce the noise of the Dead Ringer even further, making it that much more powerful.

Fighting Dead Ringer spies can be tricky and time consuming but it’s possible. Just keep an eye out for ammo packs after you kill a suspected Dead Ringer Spy. They’ll go to them to recharge their cloak as soon as possible so they can continue to fake their death. The thing is that only the large ammo packs completely fill up the cloak meter, so if they get a small one, they’ll still be coming out of the cloak soon, so just keep an eye out near the ammo pack for a new player “on your team” that happens to be coming from that area.

Scouts are really good at countering Dead Ringer spies. I usually dominate them in other servers because you can usually get to the nearest ammo pack before they can, forcing them to come out of the cloak in less than ideal circumstances.

Yes Beef, spies are 100% invisible if they haven’t been bumped into (with nonDead Ringer) or damaged.

Another way to find out if someone is a spy, as I figured out last night, is if you’re running around and you see someone else with your name tag.

More than once I say Randmcnally running around as a medic and I though, “Hey, that’s not me…”

SenorBeef has the main gist of it, although there are a few minor points I’ll clarify.

The regular invisibility watch makes you 100% invisible for a limited time (10 seconds, I think, but don’t quote me on that). However, if you bump into the spy (and you’re on the other team) he will faintly show up as a shadowy figure, alerting you to his presence. In addition, the watch recharges its timer whenever you’re uncloaked AND whenever you pick up ammunition (whether or not you are currently cloaked). This includes dropped weapons from fallen players. Using this method, it’s possible to extend your invisibility time past the normal 10 seconds or so. Even while invisible, you take damage as normal, and your position can be revealed by fire, jaratee, mad milk, or climbing out of water (it produces a dripping effect for a few seconds.

There’s a second invisibility watch called the Cloak and Dagger, which only depletes its timer while you’re moving. If you’re uncloaked or cloaked and standing still, the timer recharges. This means that, technically, you can be permanently invisible. However, this watch doesn’t recharge from ammunition. Also, if you run out of charge, you don’t decloak like with the normal watch. Instead, you become partially visible as though you had been bumped until you decloak or stand still to recharge the watch. Other than these differences, the Cloak and Dagger acts much like the normal watch.

The third watch (and my personal favorite) is the Dead Ringer. This watch has the downside that you can’t cloak when you activate it. Instead, it instantly cloaks you whenever you take damage with the watch active. I’m pretty sure that the cloak time is shorter than the regular watch, as well. However, it has the additional effect that it reduces all damage you take while cloaked, including the initial hit, by something like 90%. Moreover, the cloaking effect is perfect; you don’t become partially visible when bumped into. However, there are ways to identify the position of a Dead Ringing spy while cloaked: pyro flames, jaratee, mad milk and water drips all show up. While any afterburn effects are cleared if they occur PRIOR to activation, you can set someone on fire after they cloak as normal. Also the other effects (jaratee, etc.) DO NOT wear off just because someone activates the cloak. This makes jaratee snipers particularly dangerous. In addition, you can’t attack while the watch is “primed”, so to speak, nor can you reload. Thus, if you see a known DR spy attack just prior to dying, you can be reasonably certain you’ve killed him for real. When uncloaking with the DR, you also make a loud buzzing noise; it’s much louder than the other watches noises. You can use this sound as a cue that someone is Dead Ringing nearby. As one final note, unlike the other watches, you can only activate the DR when at a full charge, so if you get hit, you can’t recloak for a while; ammo also has a lessened effect on recharging the DR timer.

Regarding the disguise kit, in addition to SenorBeef’s comments, there’s one other good way to spycheck someone: you can walk through teammates, but not enemies. If you bump into a “friendly” player and stop in your tracks, it’s a spy. Also, spies can disguise themselves as members of their own team. (The ‘-’ key, by default, changes which team you disguise as.) That’s how I usually get behind the enemy: disguise as a friendly with my Dead Ringer out, get as close as I can to the enemy before getting hit, then get behind their lines and disguise as an enemy while cloaked. If I do it right, they won’t realize there’s a spy about because they’ll never see one of their own team strolling unimpeded through the opposing force. Then: backstab time.

Sorry for the double post, just noticed this as well:

Actually, if you disguise as a class that’s slower than you, your speed is reduced to that of the class you’ve disguised as. You don’t get any speed boosts, however, so slow-moving Scouts are usually a surefire means of Spy-spotting. The speed penalty is why I don’t usually disguise as a Heavy or Soldier (or Demoman), unless I’m REALLY confident I’ll be able to get away with it. The speed penalty means I probably won’t be able to catch up to my targets unless they’re pushing the cart or capturing a point, in which case I’ll probably get shot to pieces as I move in anyway.

Also, regarding 100% invisibility for DR spies: I think that if you extend your cloak time beyond the normal limit by picking up ammo while still cloaked, your invisibility behaves just like a normal cloak, so you can be revealed by collisions eventually. Don’t quote me on that, though.

I was wondering who Heller was since I don’t think I’ve ever seen him on the SDMB before. And here he is, an actual Charter Member!

Thanks for the fish Heller. It was a lot of fun slapping people around with it after you left!

Indeed, I was mistaken about the Heavy. Ignorance fought!

It’s handy to watch the names, too, because a lot of times they are a clue. When you play with the same people all the time, you get a feel for routines. If all of a sudden a person who’s been conservatively playing a Sniper is running around in the front lines… probably a Spy.

It doesn’t hurt to spycheck in general. Pyros are best, but other classes don’t hurt. I typically do a lot of bumping to check people, but if I’m not doing anything I might just fire at distant teammates just as a precaution (particularly if I’m clued in by behavior).

It also helps to learn the maps, so when you’re running around, you’re looking around you rather than going “Where am I going?” If someone is following you closely (or moving in to do so) and they aren’t an actively-healing Medic, assume they are a Spy. Also, keep moving. Learn to weave back and forth, jump around, and so on. Running in zig-zags is generally good advice a lot of the time anyway, since it helps avoid Sniper shots, Soldier missiles, and so on. As a Medic this is particularly important (and easy, given their speed). It doesn’t preclude a backstab but makes it more likely you’ll dodge the attempt and/or notice the Spy following your movements.

Lastly, remember that if nobody on the opposing team is a particular class that a Spy disguises as, they’ll be given a random name. This is a dead giveaway if you’re watching your team mix – plus, most players don’t evenly play all the classes. Engineers are particularly unlikely to switch classes (due to the investment of building up everything) so that can be another clue.
Unrelated - once piece of general Medic advice that isn’t terribly obvious. When you’re Ubering, it’s good to take the lead in front of your protectee if you’re going after a Sentry Gun. Level 3 guns have missiles that will knockback, and even the regular guns cause movement drag (especially a problem for Pyros if the gun is distant). This can be a pain if you’re a Pyro or a Heavy and you can’t get in the right position to fire. If the Medic is blocking, the other person can aim more carefully and/or approach the gun at full speed. All you really need to do is move towards the firing gun and watch out for Pyros with the standard flamethrower (as they’ll toss you around with the backblast). Just make sure to try to pull back in the last few seconds so you don’t immediately get killed by enemies and have to suffer a respawn wait.

Bah, more dumbing down of the spy from tf to tf2. Speed checking is one of the defenses you should have against a spy.

I say this as a bitter player who was the greatest spy who ever lived in the original TF. Yeah, hard to believe since i run around like an idiot as spy in tf2, but I don’t really like the class in tf2 so I don’t seriously dedicate myself to the craft.

But I was seriously great in TF. But then, you had no cloak or dead ringer or any of that shit. You just had to go into the enemy base in some convincing way (taking an out of sight alternate route, disgusing yourself as a friendly demoman or whatever and dodge bullets on the way in so they wouldn’t know a spy was coming, etc) and then you just had to learn people’s patterns and act out a role. If an engineer was building his stuff in one room and a soldier patrolled the area, you’d wait for the engie to go back to spawn for some metal, then fake being him, come from that direction, and kill the soldier… then wait switch to the soldier and start faking his patrol route until the engie came back and killed him… etc.

That isn’t to say there isn’t skill in spying in TF2, certainly there is, but the cloak stuff is such a big aide that you don’t even really have to act out roles, you just get into a good position and ambush people. It’s just not as challenging or fun as it was in TF. Plus, in TF, friendly fire servers enabled weren’t uncommon so if you were a great spy you’d get the enemy so paranoid and angry that they’d be killing each other left and right because someone might be you.

Btw, tonight I’m going to try out some of the stock maps I’m not very familiar with on the server to see if there’s stuff worthy of being added to our maplist. Pop on and play with us.

It’s crazy to dump on the TF2 spy. It’s way a more skill-involving class to play now, since the QWTF/TFC spy was kind of terrible. You could cause some grief with pills and backstab, neither of which are particularly useful abilities. The number of tells for the spy in the early games crippled him. Speed gave you away. Default weapon out would give you away. Blood clouds when shot would give you away. Feign death never fooled anyone who played for more than a day. Everyone had a good spy run every so often, but the people you fooled would get rolled by a soldier or medic just as well. Maybe spies were useful for progressing a flag a few yards, but that wasn’t a function of exceptional acting ability so much as the rest of your team being a distraction.

The TF2 spy, on the other hand, is an actual class. You have a purpose. You can destroy sentries with sappers and undeployed ubercharges with backstabs. All of the new abilities of the spy just make it easy to do the useless stuff that a QWTF spy would do: kill random targets. Yeah, most of the easy tells are now gone so that the pyro has something useful to do (not really useful). It doesn’t matter though, since the spy of before is barely related to the new one. It’s now about positioning yourself and proper timing to accomplish something instead of backstabbing noobs.

So your argument is that because the TF spy was so hard to play, it didn’t take any skill, but now it does?

I meant it more that there was no way to do well with the QWTF spy, and while doing what a QWTF spy could do in QWTF is easier in TF2, that isn’t important because the TF2 spy can do so much more and those things are harder than before.

Sorry, not harder. Just requiring different skills.

Do any of you have an Ol Snaggletooth you’re looking to trade? Or any of the Croc-o-Style items?

SenorBeef, when it comes to the HLStats stuff, does it still keep track of your kills and various points when there only a few players in the server? For example, if there are only six players on the server will it still track your stats or does it only track stats for when there are X number of players in the server?

4 players minimum before the stats kick in.

We had a pretty big game tonight. Nothing scheduled, but about 25 people showed up throughout the night.

I’ll go ahead and schedule a Saturday afternoon game, but I probably won’t be able to play much. If it doesn’t bring that many people because we had a big, long game last night, that’s alright - we can unlock it to let pubs fill it out if necesary.

So the early Saturday game wasn’t great, about 8 people showed up gradually. But we had another game saturday night after the playoff games and 16 or 17 people showed up. So I guess either later works better, or specifically the playoffs is keeping people away.

But anyway, given the spontaneous game we had friday night seemed to attract about 25 people in total, I’m thinking we should move Saturday’s game to Friday. And then so the games aren’t too close together, we should move Wednesday’s game to Tuesday. Sound decent? Tuesday and Friday, starting around 7:30-8pm?

We’ll give it a try this week and see how the turnout is.

Oh, and if you see a cool deathcam, or anything else for that matter, take a screenshot of it. I’m going to make a gallery of cool/funny screenshots from our games when I get enough. Or I guess fraps/youtube videos if you like doing that sort of thing.

My pimp suit is complete. Too bad about the horrible clipping between the glasses and the hat…

Kind of ruins it for me, but I know I can’t ask you guys to conform to the GMT+2 lifestyle. If you ever feel like 4 PM (or earlier!) games, let me know. I had a fun, albeit brief, time last night.

(If you ever feel like having really late games - past 1 PM Eastern - that’ll work for me too. I work from home, and I suppose I could spare an hour of getting blown up before I start work).

Couldn’t make it last night as I am out of town and the hotel internet is horribly slow. I’ll also be missing the next official session, whenever that is.

Friday is actually my night to play analog games (i.e., board games), face-to-face with real people, even. If the official session is moved I won’t be able to make it then. I’d still drop in Saturday (or any other day of the week) to get fragged by whichever Doper happens to be there.

I might have made Saturday if not for football, but Friday does tend to be a better night for me. Sometimes after a long week at work it’s really nice to stay in and game for a bit, and save the drunken debauchery for Saturday.