actually, it’s not at all the same. Yes, both are ‘risky’ behavior.
However, with smoking, you’re talking (generallY) a cumlative risk of something bad happening at some point in the future.
with the seat belt example, you’re talking each specific act has a risk of death.
Bless you,gatopescado for getting the point.
And Cartoonuniverse I don’t want to belabor the point but I respect you as a poster and I just don’t think that you’re getting the gist of what I’m trying to say. I’m willing to accept that it’s because I’m being astoundingly inarticulate and that the fault is entirely mine. Please understand that I personally could care less if you call poster A a motherfucking scum sucking goat felching anus. Language seldom offends me. However, if you are attempting to persuade and/or reason with the aforementioned individual, insulting them will usually not help sway them to your POV. Indeed, it may create a hostility or defensiveness that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
I’ve also observed that people can be much like rats in that once you back 'em into a corner, they come out fighting. Give them some room to escape and they’ll generally take it.
jlzania…once again I’ll ask you…how much room must we give him? this thread’s been open for four days. But you’ve ignored my posts thus far…why should you answer now?
jlzania…once again I’ll ask you…how much room must we give him? this thread’s been open for four days. But you’ve ignored my posts thus far…why should you answer now?
jarbabyj apologies if you feel that I’ve been ignoring your posts. My answer is however long it takes for him to cool off and re-examine his position. How long does it take you to realize that you’ve been an ass and apologize? When I’m wrong, and believe me, I’m wrong often, I sometimes see the light almost immediately and make amends. However, I have been known to get up on my high horse and stay there for days-it’s lonely and cold up there but hey, I can be a stubborn bitch.
Okay. I’ll bite. Anything to keep his kid from being ejected through Saf-T-Glass at 35 mph. I wonder if it’ll even matter to him, to read through this material. Oh well, Fighting Ignorance is done wholesale…
This Car Seat Info site is pretty good with overall information on ages, weights, things to consider, etc.
Here’s what the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin has to say, helpful chart.
Here Is the State by State data on the laws concerning child restraints.
An article on Unrestrained Children gives some interesting info.
And so on…not that it’ll make rjung think twice or anything. After all, there are CIRCUMSTANCES.
Oye god.
Cartoon w/a/d/r - Good data, but generally, I find that with situations like this, the object of the lesson already has some idea of the inherent risks involved, but is filtering it through the ‘but mycase is different’ filter (in this instance, “I’m a safe driver”, “I’m a defensive driver”, “I’m driving really, really slow”, “it’s only a few blocks”, “there’s really very little chance of some one careening around a corner and smashing into us…” etc.).
and there’s simply no answer for that.
For me, personally, while I might filter all of the above qualifiers through my ‘risk meter’, the one factor that always does it for me is:
Even if the odds are a billion to one, the outcome would be so devestating to me personally and the knowledge that I had that it was totally preventable, that I’d opted for ‘more convenient’ well - I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself.
Not I. And it’s a pretty sad argument tactic to say, “Well, sure, this behavior is risky – but what about this other totally unrelated behavior? That’s bad too!”
**
We somehow managed to survive as a species without vaccines, too. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea to use them now that they’re available, or that it wouldn’t be ridiculously irresponsible for parents to keep their children from receiving them.
Cartooniverse-thank you for supplying facts not insults. What rjung chooses to do with the information is up to him. Hopefully he’ll show his wife your links, the child will be strapped in and all will be well in the universe.And I’m sorry that I buggered up your name in my last post.
Nope. In fact, we’ve got three car seats in regular use by Number One Son around here – one in my car, one in my wife’s car, and one in grandma’s car (she sometimes picks him up in the mornings).
As I tried to mention way back in my original post (waves hand vaguely in the direction of the pile-up on the horizon), the times where my kid has been an unsecured passenger are rare occassions. Off the top of my head, he’s ridden unbelted maybe two or three times in the last 2.5 years, and each time the trips were no more than a few minutes in duration.
But please, don’t let me interrupt the flaming, I’m sure everyone’s having fun. I’m just looking for some marshmallows to go with my Rice Krispies. 
**
I don’t. Furthermore, when my mother comes to our house, she knows that she must go outside to smoke. She cannot smoke around the kids. Next question…
Zev Steinhardt
rjung, why do you believe that we didn’t read that it ‘rarely’ happen(s)(ed)?
I repeat - for me, personally, the absolute devestation that I’d feel if something had happened to my child, that I could have **easily ** prevented (merely by following my regular habits, and not 'oh, just this once it’ll be ok), would be more than I could bear. Your decision obviously is different. You’re banking on an accident not happening one of those ‘rare’ times. I"m not willing to take that risk when the alternative is so easy (and why, by the way, is driving w/your child crying for 3 blocks so awful in the first place? geez. the ‘two or three minutes’ of risk vs. ‘two or three minutes’ of my being bothered by a crying baby is what gets me.)
Either did my little brother who was hit and killed 6 years ago while riding his bike. He was 7 years old. It was a quite residential road and the woman who hit his was only going 25 miles per hour. The accident happen less than a half a block from home.
I’m not. I’m doing it out of pure disgust of your rationale.
Maybe the chances of an accident happening 3 blocks from your home that is serious enough to hurt or even kill your child is probably slim, although I suspect it isn’t as slim as you may assume. Maybe your wife’s nagging would put nails on a chalkboard to shame. But the fact is, is that you are putting your child at risk by not putting him in an infant seat even for a couple of blocks. You can not guaranty that someone will not run a stoplight, cross the center line, or pull out in front of you.
I’m not offering to pay for your kid’s college nor am I egging you on to a sarcastic flame war, I’m just telling you that I find it highly irresponsible that you and your wife are willing to put your child in danger. A risk is a risk no matter how small and the fact that the two of you are not making a conscience effort to avoid this risk makes me, IMHO, think you are an irresponsible and stupid parent.
JFYI, I don’t give a shit whether or not you educate your kid or not so keep your dimwitted defense to yourself.
You’re right, most of us have the smarts to see the difference between a gob of baby goo on the pavement and paying for a college education, but having read jrungs posts in this thread, it is obvious he isn’t like “most of us”.
Yo Cluemobile! Could we get a clue over here?
I keep a stack of blue, self addressed cards in my car that are printed by the Utah Department of Transportation. These cards were created for the purpose of reporting unrestrained children to UDOT. You fill out the small form with car description, license plate number, and situation. UDOT does not issue a ticket but instead sends the driver a letter telling them that they were observed driving a car with unbuckled children. They also send the driver statistics as well as other accident information and what it can do to children as well as a coupon for a discount on children car seats.
BTW, what action would you suggest we do to prevent you from putting your child at risk with your irresponsible behavior? Should we come over to your home and physically buckle up your kid?
Thank you jlzania for dictation what we may or may not post in the Pit. Did I miss the memo that named you Mod or Admin?
Probably because they are buckled in. Their kids however. . . . . .
Sorry, I don’t smoke nor did I allow it around my kids when they were small.
rjung, in spite of your actions here, I truly hope you are taking the information to heart and changing your actions for the sake of not only your child but for you and your wife. I know first hand the suffering my parents went through, are still going through, and will always go through at the death of my little brother.
May you never have to know what it feels like.
I understand that it is a little different, but my parents didn’t think there was any danger in letting my little brother ride his bike without a helmet. After all, it is a very quiet street with very little traffic and it was only less than a block from home.
They didn’t realize that an 85 year old women would see him, panic, hit the gas instead of the brake, swerve off the side of the road, tipping him over on his bike with his head hitting the front bumper and that it would kill him. That his injuries most likely would have been minor and non-fatal had he been wearing a bike helmet.
Maybe if someone had convinced them earlier.
Take that as you will.
Wow. I won’t even take the handbrake off the car until I know that Whatsit, Jr., MrWhatsit, and any other passengers in the car are securely belted in. The car does not move until all passengers are belted up. I don’t care if they have a philosophical objection to seatbelts. I don’t care if they just ate Thanksgiving dinner and fastening the seatbelt around their bulging middles makes them want to upchuck. I don’t care if we’re only driving three blocks down the street. I don’t care what the excuse is – I really just do not care. The car doesn’t move until everyone is belted in.
I am a safe driver, but I can’t control the actions of other drivers on the road, and I will not be saddled for the rest of my life with the knowledge that had I requested my passengers to be buckled in, I might have saved a life. (Or even saved someone a serious injury.) I absolutely am not going to take that risk with my own child. I concur with the opinions of those above that anyone who would do so is simply an irresponsible parent.
There are legitimate parenting decisions that one makes; deciding whether to breastfeed, deciding when to start solid food, and deciding whether to buy a baby swing are examples of such decisions. There is no “decision” about whether to buckle your child into his carseat. It is your responsibility as a parent to do it, every time you get into the car, with no exceptions.
rjung, I can only believe that you are offering the tired and indefensible argument that “it was just a short trip” because you’re extremely defensive as a result of having everyone in this thread yell at you for not buckling your kid up. We’ve all seen the public safety announcements, we’ve all seen the videos in Driver’s Ed class, and we’ve all heard the stories from family and friends; it doesn’t matter how long the trip is. The fact that you are three blocks from home will not stop a drunk driver from blowing through a stop sign and T-boning your car. It will not stop the guy driving the truck behind you from dozing off and ramming into your rear end. Being close to home is not a guarantee of safety.
Just to offer my own personal anecdote, two days ago I was driving home from the grocery store, and Whatsit, Jr. started screaming his head off in his carseat. I mean, seriously screaming, the kind that rapidly becomes hysterical and causes his whole face to turn blotchy and red. MrWhatsit was sitting in the back seat trying to comfort or distract him, but nothing worked. He wanted out of the carseat. It would have been very easy for us to undo his straps and pop him out, and he would have stopped shrieking. But we didn’t, because we would both rather have a hysterically shrieking child than a dead child.
Go ahead and roll your eyes at me if you must, and tell me I’m overreacting, but once again, I’d rather overreact than be rear-ended while my child was out of his carseat.
Sigh Diane I’m not dictation ** or even dictating what you can say anywhere.
Query? If some one had lectured then reamed and then sworn at your parents -would that have persuaded them to force your little brother to wear a helmet. Would ** your post have changed their minds?
And I’m so sorry about your brother-how absolutely dreadful for you and your parents.
They would have welcomed a brick smashed on top of their head if it would have made them understand that no matter how close you are to home, no matter how careful you are, there is still that split second when everything can change forever.
I just hope the words in this thread posted to jrung, harsh language and all, is enough to act as that brick to jrung’s head.
Yes but only after the fact, Diane and most likely either of your parents would have given their lives to prevent your brother from dying but they didn’t have that option. Would your post have changed anything if they had read it 3 days before the accident?
jlzania, you have remained cool and courteous amongst the flames directed at you.
You have my utmost respect, and I’m going to add you to my list of SDMB heroes.
rjung, just don’t leave your kid unbuckled again, mkay?
Diane, I’m so sorry to hear about your brother. Let me just say that your story has struck a chord with me, and I’ve learned something from it.
My kids will wear their helmets when they ride from now on.
OK, I see a possible point of confusion here…
I don’t give a damn if rjung apologizes or not. In fact, he is free to insult me, curse me, spit upon my username when it appears on his monitor, and burn me in effigy. He owes me no apology whatsoever, no public contrition.
All I want is for him to keep his kid(s) in a carseat/seatbelt/appropriate restraint when he’s on the road
That’s it. Really. Never has to tell me about it, admit any wrongdoing, or in any way let me or anyone else know he’s changed his mind. Just want him to do it. Really.
And not just for his sake, and his wife’s sake, and the kid’s sake - no, I really do mean it when I say I feel sorry for anyone who ever has to see Kid Bits skewered on car parts or smeared across a road. I have had the misfortune to see a human body obliterated in an accident. You know what? It doesn’t always look like hamburger. Sometimes it looks like chunky tomato sauce. Amazing, but the human body really can liquify on impact.