There’s probably more where these came from.
Again, Jarbabyj, what’s with the demonization?
So sail might rock a child to sleep in a moving vehicle…
You might give a child pajamas for their birthday…
Children can get hit by cars…children can strangle themselves…
Precautions can be taken, but who are you to demonize others when YOUR actions can also result in the death of an infant? Just because you are one of the lucky ones who scoffs at the statistical proof that children are at risk from clothing and blankets doesn’t make you any different than those who are unterrified by rocking childred to sleep in the back seat of their vehicles.
cool fact Death rates due to car accidents were much higher (12 per day) before mandatory car restraint systems. (since you were apparently to lazy, idiotic, self congratulatory or whatever to look up the relevant data yourself) By the way, where are your cites for all of your ‘facts’ (* fact infants do not need to wear clothes while sleeping - etc)
and, if you read my posts, no shit there are other risks.
This one, however, is totally avoidable. Given that it’s totally avoidable, there is no justification for not avoiding it.
and sail do not presume that I did not read your post. I did. I saw your careful equation where you measured out what you assume to be the risk.
I already answered that. For me, no matter how low the risk of an accident, the potential devestation is enough to get me to say that the minor inconvenience is no way worth the risk, however small.
Of course, you do also remember why they’re called ‘accidents’, don’t you? 'cause ya know, they’re not expected? like a sudden pot hole in the road, or a large animal darting across your path, or the drunk driving the wrong way, or black ice or, or, well, you get the idea.
Last time I was in an accident, it was totally the other drivers fault (they hit me from behind), totalled out the car, we were both fine (cause we were strapped in), but his car came all the way through my trunk and buckled the undercarriage of my car. Had I taken sails’ stance, my son would have died, no question. And, I even saw that guy coming, had enough time to say ‘ohmygod’ twice really fast, so insufficient time for evasive action. Accident. See?
Risk be damned, if they’re in MY car, they will not, in fact, be coming out of that seat. Until the car is stopped and parked.
I am still bemused about that novel-length equation sail posted several posts back in an attempt to bolster his position. Dude, what the hell? Do you do detailed risk analysis on every action you might possibly take with your child before determining whether or not to do what FUCKING COMMON SENSE dictates you should do? “Hmm, it seems obvious that Junior should not climb that tree with the rotted-out limb at the top. However, before going outside to tell him to come down, I shall calculate several mathematical formulae that will tell me the total risk incurred by Junior in his climb to the top, and the probability that he will encounter said branch. If x is greater than the size of the hole that my head made when encountering my ass, I will tell him to come down off the tree.”
Put your kids in the damn carseat. It’s really not that difficult.
My question to you JarbabyJ is this:
Why this hostility towards sail and not someone who buys your baby pajamas? In niether case is the intent to cause harm, so why the vitriolic reaction?
Blah, blah, yes, yes, we’ve heard it before. “My baby’s pajamas could catch on fire, and therefore it’s OK for me to let him ride around in the car without a seatbelt on.”
What new ridiculous comparisons are you guys going to come up with next?
“My baby could get cyanide poisoning from eating too many apricot seeds, so it’s OK for him to be out of the carseat!”
Or wait, “My baby could escape from me while visiting my grandfather in his retirement home, like in Look Who’s Talking, and go out into busy traffic and get hit by a car, so it’s OK for him to be out of the carseat!”
Yeah.
asking again for cool to provide cites for their ‘facts’ listed above.
You’re a real brainchild, aren’t you? Do you really think that the fact (according to your “facts”, which are nothing more than misinterpreted statistics) that a child is more likely to strangle on a blanket in bed than they are to die in an auto accident has NOTHING to do with the fact that NORMAL, RATIONAL PEOPLE are taking proper restraint precautions when traveling with their children, thereby LOWERING the overall mortality rate of children in car accidents? What do you think the total number of children killed in auto accidents would be if no one used proper restraints? I’d say that the odds are pretty good that there would certainly be more kids killed in cars than strangling on their blankies.
You seem to be having a problem differentiating between the significance of a total number of incidents and the rate of incidents. Come on back when you have some statistics on:
A. The death RATE on unrestrained children involved in accidents
vs.
B. The death RATE on children who sleep with a blanket on their bed
Then we’ll discuss which is more risky. Moron.
Wasn’t there a “stupidest things people have said” thread a while back?
For Christ’s sake, comparing keeping your children out of carseats with putting them into jammies at night is completely moronic.
Sheri
Iamsocool, would you prefer those infants die from not being kept warm enough?
Jeeeeeeeeeeeezuz, are you purposefully this dim or does it come to you naturally?
You are putting your child at a greater risk of death by not restraining them in your car if even a few minutes. The fact that you chose convenience and laziness over the risk - NO MATTER HOW SMALL - of serious injury or death of your child makes you an irresponsible parent.
From http://www.longhillnj.org/lht/pocarsea.htm
*Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of unintentional injury deaths in the United States. In 1998, 41,471 Americans died in motor vehicle crashes and over 3 million were injured. While no safety system is 100% effective in all crash circumstances, many of these deaths and injuries could have been prevented with proper use of seat belts and child restraint systems.
Motor vehicle crashes account for nearly 42% of all unintentional childhood related deaths.
· In 1998, 7 children were killed and 866 were injured on an average day.
· 61% of the children under 14 years old who died in motor vehicle crashes were unrestrained.
· Properly utilized child restraint systems are 71% effective in reducing deaths for infants and 54% effective in reducing toddler deaths in motor vehicle crashes. *
From http://www.webinsurancequote.com/auto/facts/
*CHILD SEATS
Auto accidents are the leading cause of death for children 5 - 16.
Six out of ten children who die in crashes are unbelted.
Child seats can reduce death rates for infants by 69%
Child seats can reduce death rates for toddlers by 47%*
imsocool - nice strawman you’re building even if you did pull it directly from your ass. :rolleyes:
Children die from choking. Is your next argument against those of us who feel that you shouldn’t let babies put marbles in their mouth to tell us that that we shouldn’t feed them? What about drowning? If we think it is irresponsible to leave a small child alone in a swimming pool are you going to compare it to giving them a drink of water?
Even your idiotic killer pajamas can be prevented if the parent uses some common sense and responsibility and doesn’t put a baby to bed wearing loose fitting gowns with long strings that could wrap around their neck.
Are you unable to comprehend the fact that no one here is denying there are no other dangers to children outside of automobile accidents? Can you not comprehend that being a responsible parent means taking measures to prevent or lesson the risk of injury or death?
I will reiterate - Some people shouldn’t breed and I mean that in more reasons than the car seat issue.
Wring:
Where’s my cite for the fact that children do not have to wear clothing to bed? Are you seriously being this obtuse? Or are you debating that most parents in the United States dress their infants for bed? The third fact’s cite was certainly listed. I don’t know WHAT tangent you’re trying to go down here…
As for your assertion that children dying in automobile accidents is “totally avoidable” - I simply don’t know what to say.
I have not championed the cause of people who do not belt their children in. I have not misrepresented the risk involved for people who do. And I certainly have not ignored docuemented evidence in order to avoid my own shame. I am only clearing a prevalent vein of thinking in here the past few days - that parents who do not buckle up their kids are “fuckwads” and it’s our business to let em know all about it.
I don’t know what you find so offensive about my position. You certainly aren’t interested in debating it, but rather giving yourself bon mats for turning insults with irrelevant data.
Remind me to mail ‘iamsocool’ some pyjamas.
Cite needed for ‘infants don’t need to wear anything while sleeping’. Yes, you do need proof of that. Since, for example, in the US, indoor temps are generally kept somewhere in the 60 - 70 degree range, body temp in adults is 98 +, yes, you do need to provide some evidence that sleeping w/o a blanket/clothing is the ‘best’ way for an infant (or safest).
Cite needed for: number of infants who died of strangulation by bedclothes (vs. strangulation by other means vs. other accidents while asleep, vs. SIDS etc.)
Data needed for: comparision number of hours average child/infant spends on the road vs. average number of hours child spends sleeping (IOW, if # of ‘hours spent sleeping by all infants is 300 times that of # hours spent on roads by infants’ then a direct number to number comparison is appropriate. Otherwise, you’ll need to figure in the relative number of hours).
Now, scoot and find it, and then we’ll talk.
W/O the supporting data, your posts are meaningless. You may say these are facts but I’m not buying any of it until you demonstrate it.
Damn you people are self-righteous and evil. I’m sure you all live in perfect world land where you never do anything wrong. And get that soon to be a killer grandpa off the road, before he falls asleep and runs into a schoolbus. (no, wait, your too busy attacking people online to do anything in the real world, sorry.)
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by rjung
C’mon, folks, I’m waiting… 
I submit that you should hold your breath. Yes, and sit on your hands as well. I personally do not forsee any post saying “You know, you’re RIGHT! I can totally see your point that it is better to endanger a child than risk a spat with a high strung SO! How stupid I have been!”
I don’t have any idea why you people are persisting in arguing the effectiveness for car seats. Not once have I denied their effects. I am simply denying that parents who let their kids out of a carseat while the vehicle is moving are fuckwads. That’s it.
Diane:
“your idiotic killer pajamas” - So, are you denying that more infants died in 1999 from strangulation in bed? Were all of those parents whose babies died fuckwads? What makes them different than sail and the others?
Jeff Olsen:
Are you serious here? I’m not really advocating anything here - only telling these raving do-gooders that I don’t buy their attitude.
DarkWriter:
I’m not judging people here…y’all are doing quite enough of that.
Jadis:
Not once did i state that the risk of giving a child a blankie and letting a child flop all over the car are similar. This is pure fabrication on your part, and I don’t appreciate it. I would expect that someone who can fling “brainchild” and “moron” around with such abandon to be able ascertain the difference between what I said and what you are attributing to me without instruction.
MsWhatis:
Again, and for the last time, I am not advocating the disuse of childseat and active/passive restraint in automobiles. I am simply pissed off at the attitudes people have in here for others. I think my disdain is bourne out given the quality of replies.
That’s it for me tonight…enjoy your evening all…
and noting once again, the failure to provide evidence to support their ‘facts’.
Aaahhhh… I see. I have to read to the very end of a thread to reply, otherwise I am at risk of tagging onto a completely different tirade. I beg the pardon of the hijackers above, and I shall work on my impulse control. At the time, my reply was fairly relevant. Mostly.
Here’s the thing Tars: Me, and my family and everyone except my grandfather are trying DESPERATELY to get him off the road. He has other enablers (his doctor, his friends, his son Tim) who a) give him keys if he bitches enough or b) gives him notes that says he can drive. We’ve put him in the hospital…we’ve had fucking interventions, and his driving time has severely decreased. At this point it’s just the occassional grandpa bust out.
Sail and Iamsocool are trying to come up with many ways to justify NOT using a carseat rather than just saying “I guess that WAS dangerous…and I’ll use one in the future”
And if my ‘killer grandpa’ doesn’t get you to buckle up or realize that no matter how CAREFUL YOU ARE OTHER PEOPLE AREN’T…I don’t know what will.
This is like talking to fucking brick walls.