OMG! You are RIGHT!!! How could I have EVER subjected my children to the killer run-a-way bananas!?!?!
Nice try at reasoning however. I give you a 1 for reasoning, but an 8 1/2 for effort.
You’re still missing the point sail. (which has been made before)
Yes, life has risks. And we all make risk/benefit analysis all the damn time. But, we also, if we’re responsible parents will do what we can to minimize those risks. So, for example, if the tornado siren sounds, I’m not likely to suggest taking a walk outside. And, when in the fucking car, my kid is buckled in.
the risk/benefit analysis that I will not do is:
‘convenient for me’, less time consuming = appreciably greater risk of death/serious injury for my child.
Your milage obviously varied.
I’ve read this entire thread and I’m shocked that people who are fully aware of the risks involved with either not having your child in the proper restraint system or having them sit in the front seat of a car that is equipped with a passerger side airbag still practice bad behavior.
Since no one else said it, I will. You, in my opinion, are a bad parent if you allow your child to not be properly restrained while in a moving vehicle. You, in my opinion, are a bad parent if you allow your child to sit in the front seat of an automobile that is equiped with a passenger side airbag.
I absolutely cannot beleive some of the things I’ve read in this thread! Are you less likely to get in a deadly accident because you’re only travelling a few blocks? Are you less likely to get in a deadly accident because you’re on a stretch of road you feel is safer? It’s true there are many factors in which you have no or very little control when it comes to the safety of your children. Here’s one, however, where you do. Why even take the chance? No, really, why?
I have two kids. One’s two and the other’s seven. The seven year old does NOT sit in the front seat of either of our vehicles AND he knows why he can’t. My two-year old is ALWAYS securely fastened into his carseat before the car is even take out of park. He was extremely whiny when he was an infant so I know what it’s like to drive with a child screaming in the back seat.
I love my kids and knowingly endangering them for just one moment is too much for me.
Diane,
Your missing the point. The risk is death in a car accident while driving to the grocery store, not killer bananas. Care to adjust that reasoning score?
Which family is more responsible? Family A drives the kid around 10,000 miles a year buckled 100% of time. Family B drives the kid around 500 miles a year buckled 99% of time. Answer: Family B. They sacrafice much more convienince in order to keep their child out of cars as much as possible. Sure they add a tiny risk during the 1% but but the added safety benefit they provide far outweighs that.
this thread is a good example of “CyberPerfectWorld vs. RealLifeWorld”.
I don’t think anyone disputes the benefit of keeping Jr. strapped in at all times, but in the “Real World” (which i am guessing some of us don’t get out to very often) kids cry, puke, shit their pants, can’t fall asleep- whatever! There are times they are coming out of that seat, and the “Real World” risk is next to nothing. So get a grip, clue and life. Don’t worry so much about other’s people’s kids.
if it really bugs you that bad, get out and do something about it! give money and time to political causes, learn to drive better, make your car safer, throw away all your aresol cans, crusade againt smokers, demand more public transportation (and use it!), push for tougher restrictions to getting/keeping a driver’s license to make EVERYONE on the roads safer! CURE THE DISEASE (shit drivers) RATHER THAN PATCH THE SYMPTOMS WITH FRICKEN’ SEATBELTS/AIRBAGS/CARSEATS/DISPOSABLE CARS!!! yada yada yada yada!
Sheesh! This has gotten outta’ hand!
gads, thanks for that newsflash :rolleyes: Before that minute, I didn’t realize that kids puke, cry, shit etc.
Of course, you could pull off the road and stop the vehicle before dealing with all of the above.
And, what I choose to ‘do’ about the situation is to attempt to show the people who do this, that a momentary risk that’s entirely preventable isn’t worth whatever small gain they might have.
Not because the stats on driving accidents.
Not because of the risk/benefit ratio
But because, no matter how small that risk is, there’s no potential benefit that would outweigh the potential consequences of assuming that risk.
Even if the probability of an accident approaches zero, the enormity of the consequences if I’m wrong, coupled with the very, very minor inconvenience to me to do the responsible thing, makes it inconceivable to assume that risk.
Another rational person enters the discussion. Thank you, gatopescado. Wring, you are just wrong. You just don’t seem to grasp HOW small the additional risk is, or how much benefit it can be to calm a child, for the childs sake alone. Pulling off to the side of a freeway to change a diaper can be MORE dangerous than keeping with traffic flow. Speed does not kill, speed differential kills and you greatly increase risk if you are stopped on the shoulder of a freeway. (With the next exit 30 miles away.)
You’re right sail, it must be me missing the point. :rolleyes:
Let me explain this slow for you.
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You can’t prevent every bad thing from happening to your kids.
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You, as a parent, can do certain things to lesson the dangers such as putting your baby in a car seat!
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Some of us think you are a bad parent for trading your laziness and inconvienience for the risk, no matter how small, of your baby being killed or maimed.
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Again, the part you are obviously having difficulty in grasping - THERE ARE ALL TYPES OF DANGERS TO YOUR KIDS! As I said, my son plays little league sports and he plays them rough. It’s part of being a kid, (now here is the part that confuses you) however, he is not allowed by his coach (or me) to act as catcher without his gear. In spite of the gear, he could (and has) been hit with a fast pitch enough to knock him down but because he was wearing a helmet, there was no serious injury.
Think of this example in comparison to an automobile crash. Your child can still be injured while in a car seat, but riding in cars is a part of life just as little league is a part of my son’s. However, the risk of serious injury or even death is reduced greatly by the use of a carseat or my son’s catchers mask. I would not allow him to catch ball or ride in a car without these protections.
NOW can you grasp this simple concept?
But he’s TTIIIIIRED Diane. And his show starts in a half hour…can’t we just hold the baby so we can get hoooome sooner? His poopie smells and I hAAAATE it.
I think it’s sad that some of us struggle for years to concieve a child while others find it to be mostly an inconvenience.
j
sail how on earth can I possibly be wrong about what is an acceptable risk to me? (and by the way, calling gat’s a ‘voice of reason’ or whatever, has got to be a first)
All of your posturing about calming the child etc, can be done (and safer) if you pull off the damn road. If it’s a question of a few blocks (as w/rjung) the discomfort for the child/parent is quite small.
And, regardless of the amount of risk, the consequences are the factor to me.
Small risk of potential bad + small amount of inconvenience + huge fuckingly mindsplittingly gut wrenching bad if the worst happens = Don’t even think about doing it.
[hijack to jarbaby]
Report him to the state. And the doctor too. And let the doctor know he was reported, and if your GF DOES fall asleep and kill someone, his name will be passed to the plaintiff in any lawsuit that this was an existing problem he ignored, so he will be included in any liability. And report the doc to the AMA. It may not help, but you’d feel you did what you could.
Good luck.
[/hijack to jarbaby]
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The statistics are all there to be seen:
Never mind the seatbelts, it’s the damn blankets that’s killing our kids!
On a more serious note, 184 infant motor vehicle deaths in the whole frigging year of 1999 and you Good Citizens are calling honest members of society fuckwads? Where’s the passion against parents who allow their toddlers to have a blankey? If my eyes do not decieve me, more children die on a yearly basis because of accidental strangulation in thier beds than in automobile accidents.
You people seriously need to get over yourselves. I doubt that half of you are actually parents in the first place, thus are completely clueless as to how much you would/wouldn’t do to protect your child. As for EMTs in residence, I respect the work you and people like you do, but I don’t see you stalking Kids R Us, waiting behind the stuffed animals to call the police and inform them that Mr. Jones bought Little Jimmy a Teddy Bear with an arm that can fit in his mouth.
The reason most of you are here is to rail, which is fine in itself. Just don’t try and pass your nosy, citizenship badged self off as anything other than it is - a talking-out-both-sides-of-your-mouth do-gooder.
It’s uninformed zealotry, y’all, and you should be ashamed of peddling it.
Wring,
I did not mean that you are wrong to keep you child buckled 100% of the time, only that you are wrong to criticize others for taking them out on occasion. (I almost posted a clarification to make that clear, so I am not surprised you thought that.)
I am not posturing, I stand by everything I have said without qualification. (Except typo’s). As gat said, no one here disputes the benefit of keeping the child in the car seat.
For the record:
- A child held in a passenger’s arms in the front seat w/airbag-- even in a parked car in some locations–shows ignorant and irresponsible parents.
- A child outside the car seat while making short trips shows irresponsible parents.
- A child outside the car seat with only one adult in the moving car shows an irresponsible parent.
- (The only point I have been trying to make.) A child taken out of a car seat on occasion and kept in the back seat while on the freeway during long trips does not show that the parents are irresponsible.
Yeah, yeah. There’s other stuff out there that kills children, so we’re just damn fools for thinking that seatbelts do anything at all.
By the way, “cool,” what percentage of those children who were killed in car accidents weren’t properly restrained? What number of children who survived similar car accidents were properly restrained? The lack of infant deaths due to car accidents would seem to undermine your case that seatbelts and infant car seats are unimportant.
But then, I’m just a zealot, so what do I know?
So, you have some data to suggest that an unrestrained child in the back seat doesn’t have a greater risk than the same child in the same back seat restrained?
(I know that you don’t).
Then under what guidelines do you call a parent in that situation ‘not irresponsible’ when they’re allowing an increased risk of harm to their child given that a quick and easy alternative is available. (yes, even if they perceive it’s a relatively small risk)? I’m quite certain all the other parents thought the risk was ‘relatively small’, too.
So you honestly think that driving 50-60 mph on the highway, with an unrestrained child in your car, is perfectly okay?
What do you think will happen to your unrestrained child when you are hit by a car doing 80 mph? He might just get a little boo-boo? There is NO WAY you can hold onto your baby in an accident. He will be like a guided missle, right out the windshield.
No matter how careful you are, there’s always some asshole going way too fast, or some idiot who’s had way too much too drink, or some newly-licensed kid in a Camaro trying to impress his buddies, or some poor guy having a heart attack at the wheel. You just never know. Why take a chance?
Wring,
Did you read my posts? Like the one with the probablities and formulas? Where I concede that the probablility of death given an accident is greater (4 times greater in the example) when the child is out of the carseat? So what is you point?
Please read Iamsocool’s post, and take it to heart.
Twist…twist…
I did not, at any point, hypothize that an unrestrained child is safer than a restrained child. To libel me as such a person is disingenous.
To Wring:
FACT - Infants do NOT need to wear clothing - especially in bed while sleeping.
FACT - Almost every parent in the United States dresses their infant for bed.
FACT - In 1999, more infants died in their beds as a result of strangulation than infants not secured in carseats.
Given these FACTS, it would appear that every parent in the United States opens their children to a comparable, statistical risk as those who chose to rock their children to sleep in the back seat. All of these parents are, to quote some in here, “fuckwads,” and are not deserving of understanding, but contempt.
I say bullshit to this pontificating. Especially when you people are too fucking lazy and self-satisfied to back up your assertions and name calling with FACTS.
But hey, don’t let me piss on the parade…
I have to go get some work done. My respose to all further posts is “Read Iamsocool’s two posts above.”
WHY ARE YOU FUCKING CREATING FORMULAS SAIL? If it takes math and logic theory to decide whether or not you should put your kid in a fucking car seat…you’ve got a lot more problems than I originally thought.
here’s my math for you:
baby + carseat = safer baby than without carseat
nagging wife, smelly diapers, home late for the game < my baby is dead
I’ll go with the carseat EVERY FUCKING TIME.
You do not…fine. Remind me never to let you near my kid…