the pre-trib theory proponets see the 144K as being ‘saved’ after the rapture, and coming fromt he tribes of Isreal, who have realized their error in not accpeting Jesus, and work towards evangelizing the truth after the ‘chruch’ has been ‘caught up’.
Antoher view Pre-wrath sees the 144K as being saved before the rapture (i dunno about that one!) and are left behind to evangelize during the tribulation.
Either way you cut it, both side agree that the 144K are Jews, and not part of the ‘bride of Christ’ or the ‘church’
Very much on target, Lib, and worth long and hard thinking. Many thanks for expressing it!
I have a very distinct impression that Jesus suggests two different things: that He will send the Holy Spirit, and that He Himself will return. But that may be the product of many years of indoctrination in traditional Christian doctrine. (Which in itself is not to sneer at it, just to acknowledge its source.)
Thank you also for the defense against the wisecrack. I found it witty the first time I heard it (about 30 years ago)…it hasn’t worn well with age. Behind it, though, there is a point that Adam and I went around on prior to his drop-out period. Jesus is, according to orthodox doctrine, truly God and truly man. He was “tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin.” (from one of the Epistles) As a man, he had a normal healthy sex drive; without one, he could not have experienced sexual temptation. On the assumption that he did not have an interpersonal sex life (and the Gospels give no indication of one; of course, he did not marry), if he did not masturbate – a reasonable assumption, given Jewish mores – he no doubt did have wet dreams. This may be very uncomfortable thinking for conservative Christians, but the fact of the matter, as stated in Scripture, is that he did experience all our temptations and overcame them. That would include the sexual as well as the will-to-power, etc., and some none of us will ever experience. (Hey, have you ever wanted to impersonate an angel? Easiest thing in the world for him, if it hadn’t been sinful.)
I need to compliment Adam on one worthwhile insight: Scripture makes it clear that the Antichrist, whoever and whenever, will be somebody that the world loves and respects, somebody that would tempt the Christian to follow him as he would Christ. Hitler, Manson, et al. don’t fill this bill. A Billy Graham/Pat Robertson type would fit for Christians; take one that also appeals to secularists, and you’ve got a pretty good guess.
LongHrn and RT, my perverted sense of humor once did a slight modification on that song that fits this thread:
Well, if Jews believed then as orthodox Jews do now, He would have had difficulty claiming to be “without sin” if He had wet dreams. Wet dreams are not sinful per se, but they are thought to be “wake up calls” from God that you’ve done something bad (as I understand it).
Is there any scriptural basis for the 144,000 being Jews?
Hey, not fair! The brochure I got from Jack Chick specifically said I’d get to play harps when I got to heaven!! They went and changed the rules on me. David, here’s an example of bait and switch to expose!
I too agree that the 144k is comprised of Jews. My understanding is that the Tribulation is mostly to get the attention of the Jews, more than the Gentiles.
Just thought I’d do a quick reply, “Hi”. I want to write that I believe in the pre-trib rapture for born-again Christians. I do believe it is coming soon…however, the Bible does state that that 1000 years to us, is like one day to the Lord. I believe Revelation is quite literal, for the most part. The Left Behind series (fascinating for those of any belief system), does, as accurately as possible, depict what will happen after we are raptured. I believe there will be a seven year tribulation period, after which, Jesus will re-establish rule of the Earth for 1000 years, after which he will throw Satan into hell for good, along with all of the unbelievers. Any way, that’s my $0.25.
It never even entered my mind, nor would it ever. A little “ahem” from you doesn’t cut it.
**Poly, Libertarian, Navigator and Tris **
My background was originally Episcopalian and the typical view of a physical Second Coming was what I was taught. However, a couple of you have brought forth another view of this event which I welcome. I found Libertarian’s view particularily enlightening. Wow. Thank you!
You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. -Harriet Woods-
There is also the Amillenial approach to the second coming-this is the one held by us Catholic/Christians. thought this was going to be an easy one, two, three choice-huh?
Funny Navigator…real cute ;). Anyway, I don’t know how many people on Earth would honestly say they would willingly die for someone they don’t know…sorry, but I honestly have to say, I probably wouldn’t. However, I am a sinful being, and yeah, a little selfish with my life right now. However, Jesus was without sin, and he loved us, and thankfully, he did choose to die for us. Have to say, I appreciate it
