Self-declared Music Snobs - a challenge

Cafe Society
1

Okay, so this thread on Power Pop has been going well, and veered into a related discussion about music snobbery, and the relative appropriateness of being a music snob.

I say - BE A MUSIC SNOB! In other words - know what you like and know why! More importantly for being a snob - know what you DON’T like and why! It’s just that you must be adult and non-condescending about it when you encounter others who don’t share your POV.

Someone states their undying love for Journey’s “Open Arms”? Move along, Music Snob - nothing to see here and no real chance of saving the patient.

Okay - so here is the challenge: You, Music Snob, must nominate an (at least fairly) well-known song, album or band that is not normally thought of as Music Snob-worthy, and make a case for it to be Quality Music™. NOTE: this is not a Guilty Pleasure - it must be something you stand up and say you think is quality and should be entered into the Quality Music Canon™. I will go first, in order to provide examples (and the first target to get shot down) - it goes without saying, that we fellow self-declared Music Snob will see it has our job, nay, our duty to call out or at least fine-tune missteps, howlers or just honest mistakes - all with varying desgrees of civility or condescension (in other words - be nice, unless someone is offering up Debbie Gibson or the Insane Clown Posse or something, okay?).

My selections:

The Knack - Get the Knack. Sure, My Sharona was the #1 single for 1979 and saw a retro-cool comeback in the movie Reality Bites, but the Knack was officially uncool to Music Snobs back in the day and have never really been respected. Until now - I assert that their first album rocks, and is pure Power Pop genius (Power Pop, of course, being one of the genres we Music Snobs love, right?). Have you heard Frustrated? (She’s So) Selfish? Or how about the young-love poignancy and aching in Maybe Tonight? These are great songs, well-performed. And My Sharona is catchy-can’t-get-it-out-of-my-head hummable for a reason - it is a great song! And don’t get me started on Good Girls Don’t - funny, catchy, well produced - great lead guitar line. These guys had it all.

AC/DC - many tracks with Bon Scott. Look, by the time you get to Back in Black, with Brian Johnson on vocals - it’s over. Even You Shook Me, which desperately wants to be a tongue-in-cheek Bon Scott kind of lyric, doesn’t work. But the earlier stuff, with Bon’s lyrics - sheer genius. Silly, self-deprecating, interesting rhymes - good stuff! Songs like “Rock n’ Roll Singer” and “Can I Sit Next to You Girl” off of High Voltage, “Problem Child” and “Whole Lot of Rosie” off of Let There Be Rock (sorry, don’t have Powerage, so can’t cite) and “Shot Down in Flames” and - ohmigosh - “Girl’s Got Rhythm” off Highway to Hell? I am sorry - actually, I am not the least bit sorry, thank you - it just doesn’t get any better. Girls Got Rhythm - “Love me to the limit / Achin’ and sore / enough to stop a freight train / or start the third world war” - c’mon, Robert Johnson, Willie Dixon and Bessie Smith all have nuthin’ on Mr. Scott in the blues tradition of funny, racy lyrics. And the AC/DC rhythm section of Phil Rudd, the Drummer with No Fills, Cliff Williams and Malcolm Young are just essential listening to anyone who wants to learn how to play white boy driving rock n’ roll.

Your turn - comment on my choices or offer some of your own…

2

The Go Go’s

Belinda Carlisle has when of the most fantastically wonderful natural voices ever heard in rock music (contrasted with today’s oversampled pitch-corrected hacks). Without a doubt, no one has a sexier growl than Belinda.

Combine that with the finest lyrical and rythmic hooks since the Beatles, and you have a band that really is among the finest of our generation. The rest of the band possesses members that, while technically simple and minimalist in their playing, achieve a savant-like virtuosity in their playing, especially the drumming which is pure energetic bliss to listen to.

“We Got the Beat”, “Vacation”, “Head over Heels”, “Our Lips are Sealed” are all the perfected standard of what a pop song should be.

3

Yessss. Thank you.

[minor trivia point]
I went to university (UC Santa Barbara) with Jane Weidlin’s brother, Andy, right when the Go-Go’s were breaking. Can you say “contact high” for young Andy? Jeez, he got laid when he blinked.
[/mtp]

4

Hmmph. I’d nominate the album “Get outta Dodge” by Huevos Rancheros, a Canadian band from Calgary Alberta.

(snobby accent)

Taking a page out of Dick Dale’s scrapbook of memories at the beach, this trio manages to bring classical surf music to the new generation with the same essence of purity Dick Dale has brought to his era. No vocals, just some incredible double-picking guitar action that will have you headbanging like its the 1980s and you’re at a GNR concert.

Huevos Rancheros’s “Get Outta Dodge” should be looked upon as a cd that lovingly polishes the memorial that stands for surf music lost and long forgotten. Despite the impermanence of the group–and their inability to break mainstream listener interests–its highly reccomended listening to the guitar aficionado or for curious bystanders seeking music in an altogether different genre.

Get Outta Dodge fails to disappoint.

/end music snob voice

5

I’ll do albums.

Thin Lizzy - Jailbreak
One of the most satisfying hard rock records from the 70’s, it doesn’t contain a single weak track, hit after hit, “Jailbreak,” “Angel From The Coast,” "Emerald (which indie darlings Ted Leo and The Pharmacists rips off, on “Timorous Me”), “The Boys Are Back In Town” and “Cowboy Song,” sure, many of these songs might’ve been played to death on classic rock radio, but come on, that doesn’t change the fact that this is pure, blistering working class rock 'n roll genius. I’d rather listen to this a thousand times than suffer through a fucking Strokes record.

Creedence Clearwater Revival - Cosmo’s Factory
Another band sullied by non-stop classic rock radio airplay, still Cosmo’s Factory is in my top twenty (if not ten) of the 70’s, along with much safer stuff, such as Marquee Moon, Raw Power, London Calling, Unknown Pleasures, etc. And it fully deserves it. I made my case with this band in the power pop thread, without this record; there would be no Double Nickels On The Dime. Yeah, listening to this I feel like I’m the Bandit with smokey on my tail, but you know, that’s actually a good thing.

Slayer – Reign In Blood
This album always gets overlooked when “hip” magazines make best of the 80’s lists, in my opinion any best of the 80’s list without Reign In Blood is basically worthless. Considering I once wrote a ten-point article in Norwegian about why “Angel of Death” is one of the best songs of all time, you could say I feel very strongly about this record.

I’ll add more tomorrow.

6

Husker - dude, great selections. Very cool. Slayer is regularly dismissed by folks I respect as a guilty pleasure, but a lot of what they do endures. Pantera has a lot of similarly great stuff.

raizok - never heard of 'em. From that standpoint (like my awareness is the standard…) they don’t really count. Having said that, they sound really worth checking out. Thanks for the addition.

7

Thomas Dolby - The full extent of his career is usually perceived to be She Blinded Me With Science, the only song of his that got extensive airplay. Few know he wrote ‘New Toy’ for Lene Lovich, and did keyboards for Joan Armatrading’s insanely good Walk Under Ladders album in '81. The Golden Age of Wireless, now over twenty-one years old, is still an eminently listenable headphone treat, which is remarkable considering that very, very few synth-based albums from that time haven’t become painfully obsolete.

Dolby went on to work with Joni Mitchell (Dog Eat Dog) and George Clinton. Take a step back from that sentence, and marvel. Joni Mitchell and George Clinton. Yeah. Oh, and later gets Eddie Van Halen to do a lead for a song. And Jerry Garcia, too. And he produced one of my favorite guilty-pleasure albums, Two Wheels Good, by Prefab Sprout.

Thomas Morgan Dolby Robertson. Sophisticated, meticulous, funky, artful pop music for the true music snob.

8

I’ll defend Green Day for their considerable instrumental skill, songwriting, and vocal talent – sure, they spawned a flood of sound-alikes, but even Blink-182 (whom I’m beginning to suspect also have more than a little talent) can’t hold a candle to that wicked sound. Listen to the intro and first verse of She, which starts out with just a bass guitar playing one note over and over:

She
she screams in silence:
a sullen riot penetrating through her mind
We
wait for a sign
to smash the silence with the brick of self-control.*

Listen to what the bass guitar does right at the asterisk. Listen to the drum fills that follow it up. Listen to how, as soon as they hit the first chorus, the backing vocals show up and blend in with Billi Joe Armstrong’s like some kind of spotlight. They’re on key, strong, but not overpowering. All of that talent and complexity, and they’re working within the framework of “punk”, which is based on utter simplicity.

My judgment: Green Day is to their punk ancestors as Led Zeppelin or The Rolling Stones were to blues. They weren’t shackled to the original, but you knew right away where they came from, and that what they played was something different and just a little bit better.

9

Okay, here is the definitive list of things I’m proud to worship (and look down on people who can’t discuss these things properly)

  1. Fleetwood Mac. Specifically, Lindsey Buckingham. The Mac played the only decent POPULAR music in the 1970s. Lindsey Buckingham is the non-screwed up, 1970s version of Brian Wilson. Rumours is one of the greatest albums of all time.

  2. Manic Monday. Prince wrote this and played piano on the Bangles recording. Perfect pop music. Prince’s piano makes the song. If you can’t see the genius of this song, and Prince by extension, you are dead to me.

  3. Chuck Berry. The King of Rock and Roll. You can hear elements of Chuck Berry in the Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, Nirvana, U2, and the White Stripes. Chuck Berry is the greatest guitar player of the rock era.

  4. Silly Love Songs. Proof that Paul McCartney is the Irving Berlin of Rock. Took an insult by John Lennon and made a perfect tune out of it.

Love doesn’t come in a minute
Sometimes it doesn’t come at all
I only know that when I’m in it
It isn’t silly, love isn’t silly,
Love isn’t silly at all

Just try and get that out of your head. On second thought, don’t. You will be a better person for having this song running through your head.

  1. Sly and the Family Stone. Rock. Funk, R&B. Soul. Protest. Pop. Psychedelia. The first band to mix these elements. The last band to mix these elements successfully.
10

I am not much of a music snob, but I will nominate:

Simon & Garfunkel. Their use of harmony is unmatched by anything else I’ve heard, almost transcendant in how well their voices worked together. Their compositions were deceptively simple, weaving subtle effects in beautifully and always showing great nuance with their vocals. Their guitar work was usually not very flashy, but their proficiency clearly showed (try Anji for a sweet guitar duet). And their lyrics are among the best out there, ranging from the pretty coherent story of The Boxer to the off-the-cuff poppishness of Feeling Groovy to the wonderful abstraction and poetry of The Sound of Silence. And you know, if I had to make a choice, I’d much rather live on Bleecker Street than Penny Lane.

11

Wow - lots to comment on, and unfortunately, no time (the weekends belong to the kids you know). Will have to get back on Monday…

One quick thing, however, Hugh Jass - your post has a ton to comment on:

  1. Chuck Berry practically invented the Quality Music Canon ™ when it comes to rock n’ roll - he requires no justification. Sure some songs he wrote are bad, but his great stuff is the foundation.

  2. Fleetwood Mac - no argument from me. Lindsay Buckingham is an incredibly tasteful guitarist. Anybody who can play a one note lead, like he did during the bridge in “Don’t Stop” and make it stick, deserves a ton of respect - I am being serious here, it is a great lead.

  3. Silly Love Songs - bzzzzzt, pencils down! Sorry, Mr. Jass, we are going to have to revoke your Music Snob Membership Card. IHMO, that song BLOWS!!! Okay, maybe it’s not as bad as Michelle or When I’m 64 but - no, wait, actually, it IS as bad as Michelle or When I’m 64. You are welcome to claim it as a Guilty Pleasure, but to nominate it as Quality Music ™ - to me, it just ain’t gonna happen.

Gotta go - hope I have sowed seeds of discussion!!

12

“IHMO” - oh, that was good.:smack:

You know what I meant…

13

ABBA–This group was founded by four Swedes who already had very successful careers in Sweden! That proves there was something there before the group. They went on to become the first non-English speaking group to achieve worldwide success. The songwriting team of Andersson/Ulvaeus has never been given the credit they deserve.

ABBA survives today, 20 years after they broke up, and will be bigger in the future. B&B also have a great future writing musicals.

14

Well, Jurph has done Green Day, which I’m pleased about. Dookie was the first punk record I ever got into - at 10 years of age - and I still think it rocks, for the exact reasons suggested.

I’ll try two artists for my part of the challenge.

The first is Justin Timberlake. I feel he qualifies, though others may argue that he’s either a guilty pleasure or not really that maligned, because of the apparent indie trend of loving-the-mainstream or because he’s produced by cred-laden producers such as the Neptunes and Timbaland.

But here’s my argument. First of all, the producers are an important thing. It’s hard to be ordinary pop when you’ve got such masterful beats behind you. Listen to the dnace pop spectacular of ‘Rock Your Body.’ The Guitar bursts in ‘Like I Love You.’ The slightly impromptu sound of ‘Señorita.’ And most importantly of all, the angry, fuck-you darkness of ‘Cry Me A River.’

Yeah, those producers give him something to work with, and they’re basically the driving force behind the songs. Motown was like that, too. All those Phil Spector hits; they were Phil Spector, not the girls he had in front of the mic. And Timbaland’s submarine beats and the Neptunes melodic keyboard lines and crunking beats make Justin. But he plays his part as well. He performs the hell out of the songs. You can really hear that hurt in ‘Cry Me A River,’ as well as the vindictive lack of concern. It’s as much as you can expect of your average ex-mousketeer, and Justin plays his part perfectly. And if the albums no good (I haven’t heard it), who cares? Pop’s always been about singles, and Justin is no exception. Even in his most embarrasing moments (the ‘ever since I was a little boy, I’ve dreamed about this’ bit in ‘Like I Love You’ and the ladies/fellas call-out in ‘Señorita’) he still manages to rise above the average pop crowd on sheer gall. He’s a class act, and he’s doing the best Michael Jackson since the King of Pop was black and not a suspected paedophile.

And if Justin is too cool for this thread (He was named #3 in Pitchfork’s singles of the year chart), I’ll turn my attention to Blink 182.

I mentioned Blink 182 in the power pop thread referenced in the OP, and I’ll discuss them more extensively here. For all their failings, and there are many, Blink 182 really do know their shit. For instance, does everyone know R.E.M.'s 1987 hit ‘It’s The End of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)’? In the chorus of that, while Michael Stipe sings the title of the song, Mike Mills is singing ‘Time I had some time alone.’ It’s a great pop technique - a counter-melody, and Blink use it in their latest single to excellent effect. While Mark sings ‘Fate fell short this time/ Your smile fades in the summer,’ Tom sings, contrarily, ‘Are we alone/Do you feel it/ So lost and disillusioned.’ It’s somewhat clever; while Mark sings about a love-based relationship, Tom’s singing purely about sex.

Actually, ‘Feeling This’ is a great testament that Blink are more than your average pop-punk band. You don’t see such dynamics in your average Good Charlotte song, from the distant, shouted bridge, to Travis’ excellent drumming throughout - even non-fans must admit that Travis is an accomplished drummer - to the reversed production - guitars pushed to the background while percussion pushed to the foreground. Sure, these are post-punk moves handled better by more accomplished bands, but for what Blink are doing, and with the pop smarts they’re doing it with, it’s quite an accomplishment.

Also, Blink have a much better songwriting and musical ability than your average pop-punk band. While Tom’s guitar lines aren’t Van Halen - thank god - there’s a complexity and a speed there that shows his ability goes beyond power chords. And in some breaks, like that of ‘What’s My Age Again,’ he can really play pretty arpeggios. ‘Dammit’ surely contains one of the most memorable guitar lines of the '90s. Mark, too, has shown that he can use the bass guitar as a melodic instrument - on ‘Carousel,’ for instance. ‘Sure’, you may scoff, ‘plenty of other bands have done that, and better, too.’ I won’t disagree. But for a pop-punk band like Blink 182, this is clearly showing some pop-smarts ahead of their contemporaries, and enough, I feel, to distinguish themselves as something important outside the genre for which they’re known.

Now, I said this in the other thread, and I’ll say it again, if you think of Blink as punk, then you’re going to get nowhere. If you want punk, listen to the Ramones, or the Clash. But Blink make great pop music. The hooks, the melodies, the harmonies, it’s all there. Don’t think of them as usurpers of punks true spirit, but as artists harnessing the energy and vitality of punk to create breezy, feelgood pop about girls, girls and girls.

And, though they get criticised as puerile, that’s what Blink is all about. Girls. Listen to their albums, and notice that their latest has no juvenile humour, and even though their earlier albums have a couple of joke songs, they spend most of their time concerned with matters of the heart. The insecurities, the joys, the irrationalities; Blink are the eternal adolescent within us all, musical Holden Caulfields, and we all have those moments when we experience those emotions that are too base to be called adult. That’s when Blink come in. After all, even one song centred around a masturbation joke (‘Waggy,’ from their Dude Ranch album) is essentially a broken-hearted exit song. ‘I’m trying so hard to keep playing the part of the fool, week after week,’ they cry, before, as if to prove they can keep up the jester image, finishing with ‘I’ll just jack off in my room.’

I’ll admit their lyrics aren’t the greatest. There is even some clangers on their latest album, their apparently serious work with inventive production, creative songwriting, no dick jokes, and a Robert Smith cameo.

That’s what I said - Robert Smith. These guys are big Cure fans, and it seems Mr Smith was happy enough to add his considerable talents to their album. And it’s a good song. That’s the point I guess. These guys may not be your thing, but they aren’t dumb, and they do know their way around a hook. Who cares if they’re punk or not? Their pop is too good to argue whether they really deserve the ‘punk’ title.

15

That’s actually one of the most annoying songs I have ever heard, it exemplifies everything I hate about So-Cal bro-core. I can’t even tell these ridiculous bands apart; Goldfinger, NOFX, The Vandals, Face to Face, Pennywise, etc, they all sound exactly the same. It’s basically guys in their thirties still obsessed about high school, high school girls and fart jokes, making unexciting music for fourteen year olds. My personal rule of thumb: if the band wears baggy pants, they automatically suck. It has yet to be disproved.

You state your case excellently though, but personally I just can’t agree with it.

16

Annie Xmas - y’know, ABBA have always bubbled below the surface of Music Snobbery - some Snobs declare them to be a Guilty Pleasure, others I know seem very comfortable stating their respect. The point is - they endure and most music fans do acknowledge.

gex gex - I have little to no experience listening to either artist you mention, but nice job with the rationale. You make a great case for both.

Windwalker - Don’t most music snobs like S&G? I mean, Paul Simon writes great songs! I am not a fan of the singer/songwriter or folk genres, but I love their stuff. Does it need defending?

Jurph - no argument from me. Green Day rock, especially Dookie, and especially the song She. A personal fave.

MrVisible - I really respect Dolby as a musician, but most of his own work hasn’t done a lot for me. I listened to Aliens Ate My Buick a number of times and enjoyed the production and some of the hooks, but it didn’t stick with me…not sure if he deserves full-blown respect as a solo artist. However, he did great work helping out with keyboards on Foreigner’s album “4” (sorry, but the sax solo in Urgent is just about perfect to me - Music Snob alert! - but the bulk of the album is much more, if anything, just a guilty pleasure…)

Okay, so I got a little more time to post 'cuz the kids went next door…

17

Which makes him an excellent candidate for this thread.

I’ll agree that Aliens Ate My Buick, despite the resplendent title, is a mediocre album overall. The standout track for me, and (please note the arrogant establishment of impeccable music snob credentials) the track I played most on my late-night community-radio show, was Budapest by Blimp, a sweeping epic with operatic backing vocals that never fails to amaze.

But if you stopped there, you missed Dolby’s best album since Wireless, the underrated Astronauts and Heretics. It has at least two, and IMHO more, of Dolby’s best tracks on it, including I Love You Goodbye and the intensely honest and devoted Beauty of a Dream. It’s more than enough to earn my respect.

Finally, I submit this challenge. If you don’t already have it, get a copy of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. Do a few missions. Get a nice car. Tune the radio to Wave 103. Drive around until Dolby’s Hyperactive comes on. Watch yourself start driving at an absolutely insane pace, careeening into any inanimate object around you. Note your reluctance to abandon the vehicle while the song is still on, even when flames start pouring out of the hood.

Any music you’d risk being blown up to listen to is good music.

18

Oooo - great argument.

19

actually - let me be clear, since that last post might be taken as sarcastic - I was serious, it is a good argument!

20

OK.

Bobby Sherman. Beautiful singing voice and song after song by the best writers of the 1970s. Plus, many, many unusual songs: “Getting Together.”

Hanson. First album is just lovely.

Paul Williams. Often his solo work is so-so, but can be great (“Flash”). But look what he wrote/sung for Phantom of the Paradise and Bugsy Malone, and you’ll know what true songwriting genius is.

Brian Protheroe. He’s basically unknown, but his three albums are truly amazing and ingenious 70s pop music. If you haven’t listened, you gotta.