I stayed; you didn’t.
My complaint about the Reavers is that the backstory on them was twelve years old. I’m sorry, but 30,000 raving cannibalistic maniacs (1/10 of 1% of an initial population of 30 million) are not going to last twelve years. They aren’t going to last six months. Maybe a few of them might have the presence of mind to get on a ship, but they aren’t going to pilot it. Even if they pilot it, they’re still going to kill each other off at a rate steep enough to do in the whole population in a short span of time. While one of the Firefly episodes gave a possible “make new Reavers” scenario, that’s actually been blown out of the water now. Reavers were made by the chemical dumped into Miranda’s atmo. There won’t be any new ones, and they don’t make baby Reavers, either.
Other than that, of course, I loved it. Mal’s character was much darker than in the series. I cried for Zoe, especially when she tried to get Wash to get out of the pilot’s chair and later at his grave. I loved the costumes, the scenery, and the Jossy dialogue. Definitely will see it again.
:eek:
I’m curious whether or not Ron Glass and/or Alan Tudyk wanted “out” of the Firefly 'verse. I think I heard someone mention that Ron Glass wanted out due to his other ongoing projects (community involvement, IIRC).
The only thing I can think to explain the Reavers is that:
a) They somehow recognize their own; behavior cues, or something.
b) They’re NOT constantly raging; they only rage when there’s an opportunity to feed.
Spoilers for the Firefly episode “Bushwacked” below.
I don’t think that follows. For one thing, we did in fact see a new reaver be created, so we know it happens. And there’s no indication reavers aren’t as intelligent as regular people, they just don’t give a shit if they live or die, nor is there any indication (that I saw) that they hunt each other. They’re rabid killing machines, sure, but they can do other stuff too, and that includes recruit.
–Cliffy
Yep. The Operative believed in the Alliance. Believed in it enough to commit unspeakable acts in its name. Believed in it like Mal believed in the Independents. Mal was only defeated, the Operative was proven wrong.
Mal knows what a broken man looks like. That’s why he let the Operative live. It was crueler. As for the Operative, well, “there’s nothing left to see”. Maybe, if he’s lucky, he can find something else to lay his faith on. Something else to live for.
Like Book, or Mal.
I adored this film. Just adored it.
I saw it today at a matinee. I loved it, but am worried newcomers who haven’t seen the show will be confused.
I remember hearing that it must make $60,000,000 to be eligible for a sequel. I think it can get there, but I’m not sure. Then again, it may make 100 million for all I know.
My favorite line:
Zoe: “Do you really think any of us will survive this?”
Jayne: “I might!”
My wife’s favorite line:
Wash: “This is going to get interesting.”
Mal: “Define interesting.”
Wash: “Oh God, Oh God, we’re all going to die!”
What a dynamite flick. I can only echo what others have said regarding Wash’s death. It made everything that happened later in the movie much more serious. In fact, I assumed that Zoe had died, and that Simon would die too. And Kaylee. And Mal. Especially Mal. I had read something on some website that had a quote from Nathan Fillion to the effect that it was weird to film his death scene on his first day on set.
The odd thing was that I thought I read something that everyone had signed for two sequels, including Alan Tudyk and Ron Glass. I read that Nathan Fillion was the only one who HADN"T signed for sequels, giving further credence to what I had read earlier.
I was mildly disappointed in the reavers, only because nothing can match up what I created in my mind. Joss did right by only showing glimpses, but even that was too much to my mind.
The comedy bits were excellent. I particularly loved how, after escaping the reavers, everyone is stunned, and busy checking to see if they are still alive, River says “I swallowed a bug.” So random, which fits so well.
The villain was great. That guy should become a star. So matter of fact. It reminds me of the people that justify terrible things on behalf of “freedom” or “for the state.” I suspected that Mal would be able to broadcast the tape and that would serve to make the villain to stop trying to kill them, i.e., the damage has already been done. It’s kind of a stretch. I mean the guy failed his mission, would have serious punishment in his future, it would fit that he would give the okay to kill these people. At least to cover up loose ends. He was a company man, and I think he should have been until the end. Though he was never malicious. And he never lost his temper, just like he said. He was stunned, he was shocked, but never angry.
THOUGHTS ON SHEPHERD BOOK
I’m particularly saddened by the death of Shepherd Book. That character had so much potential. I just watched the DVD last week in prep for the movie. I saw a scene where Book and Jayne were lifting weights. I got a weird vibe from the scene. Given Jayne’s reaction to the events of Jaynestown, I had this idea that Jayne would eventually (sometime long after the show had ended its 7 year run) become a man of God like Book. I realize that’s a stretch, but if anyone could pull that off, it would be Joss Whedon.
I’m agnostic, but was raised in the Catholic tradition. I like seeing religious people protrayed in a positive light. It just isn’t done too often. As humans with failings and frailties and a genuine belief in God. Like Book was portrayed. Neither sanctimonious or a pervert. I really liked the idea that this man was called to minister to this flock on this ship.
I was shocked at Wash’s death, but genuinely saddend by the Preacher’s death. Isn’t that remarkable when you think about it? To be saddened by the death of a side character?
MORE THOUGHTS ON SHEPHERD AND THE OPERATIVE
Just spent some time thinking about this. Now, in the series we’re led to believe that Shepherd Book was a badass of serious dimensions before he became a shepherd. And that he carried his then-actions as a heavy burden. Presumably, to be capable of the badass things that he feels guilty about now, he had to buy into whatever line of BS was fed to him. Something, again presumably, had to trigger his conversion. I would have liked the Shepherd to have played a bigger role in this movie, to the effect that he plants a seed somehow in the Operative, so that the events of the movie serve as the Operatives spiritual awakening. He lets them live and goes off to a monastery to begin to atone for his sins. The sly implication would be that once upon a time Shepherd was in the Operatives shoes and was set on his path by similar events.
I guess all the thinking I’m doing about this stuff means it was a really good movie.
Well, after getting over my shock and grief at main characters dying, I think I liked it. That’s one of the reasons I’ve always liked Firefly, being uncoventional and all. But like others here, I sure was worried for awhile EVERYONE was going to die, and man, that would have sucked, unconventional or not.
There was so much going on, I haven’t processed all of it yet, and I’m sure I missed a lot too. I always enjoyed the tv episodes much more the second time around; I always caught new things and certain jokes are actually funnier after you’ve heard them a few times. (You know, like Jayne got beat up by a 110-lb girl. I don’t think that will ever get old!)
So many great witty lines like we’ve always loved, and great to see Kaylee and Simon finally gettin’ it on.
Looks like Jewel Staite and Adam Baldwin have both slimmed down a bit, or is that just me?
Staite certainly did. Whedon asked her to put on some pounds for the role when he cast her in the series because he wanted Kaylee to look less like a Hollywood starlet. She shed them when Firefly went off the air and asked Whedon not to make her put them back on again for the movie, and he agreed.
–Cliffy
I think that this is the best film I’ve seen all year.
Like many others I started to worry if any of the crew were going to survive. I also like how Whedon had Wash die, suddenly and with no lingering doubt about his death. I was disappointed to see Wash and Book die, but that’s one of the things you have to love about Whedon: always be tense because no character is safe.
Everyone keeps talking about Nathan Fillion maybe breaking big, but what about Early II/Operative, Chiwetel Ejiofor? Wow, talk about a great bad guy. Although most of his best lines are given away in the trailers, I still loved when he talked about how he did evil to create a better world where he would be unwelcome; Whedon wrote him as someone who saw himself as self-sacrificing, and Ejiofor did an excellent job of portraying that. The Operative is a frightening and charismatic dude.
My only complaint was that the ending was a bit too pat. The Operative suddenly changes his mind about the Alliance because he finds out the origin of the Reavers? Whatever. He himself said that he is an evil man (or does evil deeds, not sure which), but that he is sacrificing himself for the greater good, so why would a minor screw-up involving 30,000,000 people matter if it’s for the greater good? A minor complaint about an otherwise excellent movie.
BTW, when they were coming back to Book’s planet after the Alliance razed it, did anyone else have the urge to shout “Uncle Owen! AUNT BERU!”
Mahaloth, I wouldn’t worry about the movie making enough money for a sequel. Although conventional wisdom holds that a movie must earn double its budget to make a profit, that’s in terms of making a profit off the box office alone. Nowadays movie studios factor in profits from DVD sales as well, so that plenty of movies that don’t break even at the box office turn a profit in the long run. And if sales of the Firefly series DVDs are any example, sales for the movie DVD are going to go through the roof.
Jewel definitely did. Joss made her gain 20 pounds for Firefly (poor baby!), which she lost again after the show went off the air. They didn’t bother making her gain the weight again when it came time for the movie.
She’s hot no matter what, but did anyone else find her hotter when she had more weight?
I guess I have to weigh in that I really didn’t like Wash’s death. It was so…pointless. It raised the dramatic tension, yes, but it was just so meaningless otherwise. And the pacing just made me felt like they were completely disrespecting the character. “Yes, we landed! Oh no, he’s dead! Time to fight the Reavers.” Yes, realistically, in that situation there wouldn’t be time to grieve, and Zoe’s first and foremost a soldier. But his death didn’t do anything; had nothing happened to him in the cockpit, the movie could have played out exactly the same and be none the worse for the wear. Just seems like a rude way to treat such a good character.
Really, though, I imagine Joss went to his crew before the shooting began and said “This is probably the last project we’ll ever do for Firefly, and we’ve been given buckets of money to do it. If we go out, let’s do it with a bang.” That pretty much encompasses the entire movie; everything was Firefly in heightened form.
I do love the movie as a whole. (Forget Jewel; I’m in love with Summer now.) I just think Wash was handled poorly.
No, I disagree. Like others have said, Wash dying upped the stakes of the last battle. Unlike a Star Wars battle where the Stormtroopers can’t hit anything except the occasional arm I seriously thought that most of them were going to die, especially after Kaylee got the darts in her neck and everyone else started getting shot. When River got dragged outside, while it was pretty expected that she’d go apeshit and kill them all, the way it was shot, especially after everyone was lying on the ground dying (as far as I knew) made it seem like she was about to be overwhelmed.
I also thought Jewel looked better heavier.
Absolutely. Kaylee was certainly hot in the movie, but she was hot AND cute in the series. In the series, I always found Kaylee more attractive than Inara, but in the movie it was the other way around.
Jewel Staite’s a woman who looks best packin’ a few extra, in my opinion. Curves are a GOOD thing.
I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, GREAT movie. And certainly Wash’s death heightened the dramatic tension for the last 20 minutes of the movie. But the fanboy in me says that that’s too high a price to pay. Wash was an essential character in Firefly. He was the voice of morality, the comic relief, and his marriage to Zoe added some good dramatic tension. Firefly is more than one movie - it’s become a fan movement, and killing Wash was a pretty high price to pay for some extra drama. On the other hand, for people who had never seen Firefly, and who are seeing the movie as a standalone thing, Wash’s death was very effective.
I was even more disapponted in Book’s death, for a couple of reasons. One was that it was pointless - Wash’s death made the last few scenes much more tension-filled, but if they had skipped the killing of Book it probably wouldn’t have made much difference. Also, it was a little too cliche’ - the entire abbey is wiped out and everyone is dead, *except for Book, who manages to hang on just long enough to give a dying speech. That was a tad trite.
Also, I don’t like how Joss changed Kaylee’s character. In the TV show, her essential characteristic is her sunny disposition. In the movie, she’s basically just horny and cranky. I didn’t much like that change.
Basically, the whole thing was much darker and harder-edged than the TV show, and I thought the touch of whimsy and light-heartedness was essential to the character of Firefly. If they make a sequel, I hope they go for a lighter touch.
But considered as a movie apart from the larger world of Firefly, it was fantastic.
BTW, the Tomatometer over at Rotten tomatoes is now at 83%, with the "cream of the crop’ reviews (mainstream critics) at 90%. That makes it one of the best-reviewed movies of the year.
I love this movie. I have to find the soonest possible opportunity to unload my two year old on someone so I can catch it again.
When Mal shot the Operative, I actually yelled, “All right!” It was a great echo of The Train Job ending, and proved to me that the movie was being true to the series.
I was flinching as Serenity got torn up.
Then when Wash got it, I gasped out loud. I think, “He ain’t coming” are some of the most painful words I’ve ever heard a character utter. At the end when Mal sat in the pilot’s chair, I started crying. I agree that I totally and completely hate the idea of no more Wash, while also agreeing that it was a brilliant dramatic maneuver and made me think pretty much everyone was going to die. For me, Book’s death was sad, but it also planted the idea in my mind: “A main character died - now everyone else is safe.” Joss just knows how to manipulate us all so well!
I thought it was pretty wonderful in every way. It was dark and tense, and yet sometimes funny even within such a scene. Given the limited time, the characters were drawn well, and I liked the storyline.
The Operative didn’t believe in the Alliance per se. He believed in creating a Utopia where people are peaceful and sinless. The import of the recording is not that it shows the Alliance screwed up and did evil stuff. It showed the Operative his dream come to fruition, and that the dream itself was corrupt.
No, but when Simon was lying there looking like he was going to die, I almost yelled, “NO - you have to have sex with Kaylee!”
The movie sucked like a Hoover upright.
Why didn’t the reavers shoot her? 
Right there with you!
“And these blast points, too accurate for Reavers, only Alliance troops are so precise”
I thought the movie was great and have no doubt that there will be a sequel, and it being Joss, I expect at least a few Wash/Book flashbacks (how many times did we see Joyce or Ms. Calender after they died?)
I liked it better than Episode III, and you can only appreciate the degree of that compliment by seeing how many lightsabres are mounted on my wall.
Well, I don’t think we get much chance to see her do anything before Simon and Mal get into their fight and Simon announces that he’s going to leave. For the rest of the movie, Kayle has that and the later events weighing on her disposition. Her being horny isn’t really a recent character development if you’ll recall. Just normally she’s horny and cheerful.
Heh, holy crap, a sci-fi movie that both I and Rotten Tomatoes likes? :eek: