Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!))

Cafe Society
41

I get what it was supposed to be for, but I think it didn’t do well even at that. There wasn’t any drama to it, he’s just dead in an instant with a huge spike through his chest. I know that tends to happen in real fighting; you can be talking to someone normally, and in an instant their head will be blown off. But I think it was inappropriate, given that the rest of the crew didn’t go on to fight huge spikes, but had a shootout with Reavers face to face.

My personal choice, if Whedon was shooting for dramatic tension and Wash had to die, would’ve been to have Wash actually get jumped by Reavers and the others unable to get them off him in time. Perhaps even culminating with Zoe shooting Wash in a mercy-killing as a call back to the poor guy Mal shot at the beginning. That would have been far more dramatic and powerful, in my opinion, and would have heightened the tension even more because that could happen to the rest of the crew at any time afterward. Once they got out of the hangar, none of them were in danger of being shot with spikes. The way it was done, Wash’s death just feels like a throwaway. Obviously there’s disagreement on that angle; this is just one fanboy’s opinion.

42

You…are no longer my friend.

I was completely spoiled for the movie, and it still made me jump, laugh, cry and cheer. I led the audience applause at the end. What made it even better was seeing a number of my students in line for the next showing as we exited the theater.

“Y’all were watching, I take it?”

“Yes.”

“You see us fight?”

“No.”

“Trap.”
We already have tickets to see it again Monday. :smiley:

43

My friends and I couldn’t stop saying “I can’t believe they killed Wash!” when we left the cinema. Poor Zoe. But then remember in “Heart of Gold” she told him that she wasn’t so afraid of losing something that she wouldn’t try having it, which comforts me a little.

I got the impression that the Reavers were super-aggressive, not super-insane, so I don’t have any problems with them surviving and generally getting around the way they have been.

Also agree that Jewel Staite looks better with more curves. She’s beautiful now, but before she was adorable, and somehow I think that suits her better. Or maybe it just suits Kaylee better. It did make her seem less older and less innocent.

I liked how the plot was relevant to today’s world situation, but not specific to it. There will always be people who think you can force other people to behave “better”, but doing so will always create your own enemies. It’s a story that acts as a reminder to everyone, I think.

After Book died, it didn’t make me think that now everyone would be safe - it reminded me that no-one is safe in the Whedonverse. When Wash brought Serenity into Mr Universe’s planet, I thought “Oh no, they’re going to kill the ship!”. How wrong I was… and after that I was terrified any time someone got wounded.

Have heard that people who saw the movie who haven’t seen the series like the story and are just a bit fuzzy on the who/why of the characters.

44

I’ve watched the trailer four times so far tonight. Definitely going to see the movie again tomorrow.

You can’t stop the signal. Boo-yah.

How is the recording showing his dream come to frution? And how does it show his dream is corrupt? The Alliance still functions after the Miranda screw up, so why can’t he just assume that it was “lesson learned” on the part of the Alliance?

45

Okay, I’ve been enough of a griper in this thread.

I noticed that the plot had zero to do with Book or Blue Sun, both of which played very prominently in the series. If they do do two more movies, I’d like to see both plotlines covered. You don’t even need Ron Glass for the Book one. The Serenity crew gets entangled in some sort of plot that’s linked to Book, and in their quest to get themselves the hell out of the mess, they discover facets of Book’s past. Use flashbacks with a younger actor than Ron for Book, and you should have a pretty solid story there. Blue Sun is obvious; they confront the blue-gloved men and get them off River’s tail once and for all. That’s assuming there will be nothing more after three movies, of course.

46

I completely disagree. The fact that any anyone can just DIE at any second in their world adds gravity to everything they do. And it’s realistic in a way that movies seldom are. In real life, people die just like that. One day you’re talking to your best friend, the next he’s hit by a car and gone. No big dramatic flourish, no last goodbyes.

The world of Firefly is a damned dangerous one. One in which people usually die just the way Wash did. A suit gasket fails, a ship crashes, a part breaks, or someone just shoots you in the head for looking at 'em funny. That attitude is shot all through the Firefly 'verse. A very fitting way for Wash to go.

I just wish he hadn’t.

47

Perhaps. I might just be stuck on more conventional dramatic effects. That scene just didn’t achieve for me what it should have, is all.

48

Except that River, being a reader, can kill your enemies before the war has even started. She can wipe people out before they even begin to implement their plans, before they have ther defenses up. A reader can kill a politician before he’s even announced he’s running for office. A reader can simply walk through the population and sense the start of insurrection, or even learn who is disloyal without them having to utter a word.

That’s a damned handy assassin to have. And imagine the chilling effect it would have on the population, once word got out that even thinking about crossing the Alliance could get you killed. <shudder>

49

And that, like shooting folks with your eyes closed, is just plain silly. :slight_smile:

50

Non-watcher checking in (in case any of you weren’t sure about taking people who aren’t into the series). Though I’m a big Joss Whedon fan, I’d barely seen an episode of Firefly before checking out the movie: I loved it! I found the mechanic girl a bit annoying, loved the first big fight scene with the psychic girl- how slow and methodical she was, and what fucking moves.
I didn’t feel out of the lurch concerning the backstory (I do plan on watching the DVDs now, but I’m somewhat tentative, knowing that there won’t be more coming! It’s like reading the “complete works” of your favourite author), and it’s really the first time I actually cared about movie characters in a long while.
I’m sure Wash’s death was a shock and tragedy to all long-term fans, but it really did make me think all bets were off and Whedon would just kill em all (I’m so, so happy he didn’t- just when I was thinking how sad and dark the movie was getting, the day was saved).
Also, I never really understood the expression “an ass that just won’t quit,” but Mal’s jodhpurs are just… breathtaking.

51

I completely agree.

The point of Wash’s death was the pointlessness of the death both in the story and in the dramatic tension, it just happened.

My only real complaint about the movie, beyond the “Miranda? Never heard of it, oh wait there it is” and the sound in space battle, was how dark it was shot, or at least shown. I had a hard time following the action sequences.

In other news… My mood was really affected by the lighting. I had to do some grocery shopping after and I felt somewhat like River after she had been triggered, I was ready to start some imminent violence. I have not felt that “bothered” by a movie before. It could have been the fact that my kids were in a mood, but Mrs. Prefect and I both were affected. Did that happen to anyone else?

52

Aye, as River was winding up in the bar and you just knew what was about to happen, I could hear

in my head…

53

Anyone have fanboys and -girls in costumes? I had a Mal, a Wash, a Zoe and several Inaras.

54

I enjoyed it and it was pretty much everything I expected it to be but I HATED how Wash died. If it had been during descent, I wouldn’t’ve minded but, as is, it felt like nothing more than an obvious attempt to heighten the tension and make the other characters’ fates seem less certain which, I fully admit, it did do.

But the sudden death after everything seemed shiny? Fuck that. That alone took it down a full star in my book.

Yeah. He was my favorite.

55

I just got back from seeing it. DAMN, that was a great movie!

I was very happy for Serenity’s sake that the threatre was packed (I think it was the fourth screening) despite the Vancouver International Film Festival being in full swing mere blocks away. Yes, I took time off from watching movies all day to see Serenity at the only theatre in my neighborhood that’s showing mainstream movies this week. You could call me unsophisticated if it were any other movie, but it’s Serenity.

I liked the timing of Wash’s death. I genuinely didn’t know who was going to make it, if anyone.

(For the sake of those who haven’t watched Firefly yet)

Kinda like how I thought Mal might just kill Jayne in Ariel.

I also like that his death wasn’t a big dramatic thing. I could almost hear Joss yelling: “That’s right! I’m killing beloved characters off left and right! I’ve gone crazy, and I have a budget!”

Jeez, I guess now I have to get new wallpaper for my computer’s desktop. It’s been a giant Serenity logo with “September 30th” emblazoned beneath it for months now.

56

Okay, everyone ready your flamethrowers, you’re about to hate me.

A list of things I didn’t like about this movie:

Wash getting killed. It was cheap. It didn’t heighten the tension for me, it lessened it. If anyone can die at any time, I’d better not get too attached. And I was very attached to Wash.

Book getting killed. Now we’ll never find out his story. Bah. It was also pointless, and as has been pointed out, it was cheesy to have the “everybody dead except the important character who gets to make a speech.”

Inara’s bow and arrow. WTF? In the series she uses a slim, elegant laser pistol, which suits her. The bow and arrow was just weird. Was that designed to sell toys or something? I guess the bow and arrow was amongst her box of stuff she’d left on the ship, but…it’s just weird. Hand the woman a gun; she knows how to use one.

The bad guy decided to let them live, and help them get Serenity repaired. Why? He was a remorseless stone-cold killer. And suddenly he develops a heart? That’s just bad writing.

Err, not really…it just showed that they needed to do a little more testing on the chemicals. The dream was still perfectly valid.

The sound in space. That was disappointing.

The weird electrical cloud thing…what the heck was that supposed to be? Very Star Trek.

SuperRiver. SO ANNOYING! Ugh. Now she can shoot with her eyes closed, read minds, possibly kill people with her brain, do martial arts, and pilot the ship. Aside from having her beat up the reavers at the end (which I didn’t like either) there was no real reason for her to be a martial arts expert.

River’s extraction from the lab being re-written. I understand that it made for nice quick exposition, but it also changed Simon’s character; rather than being a non-heroic guy who’d paid a lot of money to get someone else to get River out, (remember the pilot episode?) suddenly he’s a dashing hero who’s also a cunning master of disguise. Remember how good he was at that in Jayne’s Town? Pretty appalling at it. I guess he forgot how.

Mal. He was all over the place. His character seemed right when he went to save Inara; it showed him being clever, loyal, cocky, and ruthless when he shot the assassin. But much of the rest of the time, it didn’t feel like the character was the same one I’d grown to love from the series.

Jayne getting beat up by a 110 lb. girl. Unlike Wash, I’m already tired of hearing about it. It smacked of Star Trek, where every bad guy had to beat up Worf to show how badass the bad guy was…but in reality it just made Worf look like a loser. Same effect here.

Rather than getting Firefly on steroids, I felt like we got Firefly watered down. Where was the characteristic music? What about the funky cowboy talk? And the ship interior seemed spruced up to make everything sleeker and cleaner, despite the show supposedly being about life on the fringes, where everything’s not neat and tidy. It felt in a lot of ways like it had been sanitized for a mainstream audience.

Mr. Universe…such a blatant plot device.

The hologram lady said that everyone stopped going to work. But, uh, what about all those people who were dead at what looked like a place of employ? And how exactly were they preserved by being sealed in? Even if the room was sterile, the people would still have intestinal fauna that would rot them.

River got a signal from the toothy octopus commercial, and she said “Miranda.” Huh? Was the alliance broadcasting something to make her think about one of their big screw-ups? That makes no sense. I could see that they’d perhaps want to trigger her so she’d flip out and thus be easier to find, but why did she say Miranda?
So, obviously, I had some problems with the movie. I’d intended to go see it several times this weekend (I’d heard it needs $80 million for a sequel) but now I’m not sure I want to. I’m not even sure if I want a sequel. However, it was still worlds better than a lot of movies I’ve seen, so perhaps if I plan to go see some other movie I’ll just buy a Firefly ticket and then theater-hop. And, just for the record, I absolutely adore the series. I think if I didn’t like the series so much, I might have liked the movie better.

Oh, and Jewel Staite definitely was better looking in the series.

57

Oh! And where was Vera? I’m not saying Vera’s absence was bad, just that Vera’s presence would have been pretty darn cool.

58

I kind of agree with most of that. Maybe all of it. Plus, the ‘feel’ of Serenity changed. It used to feel like a lived in spaceship. They played games in the big open hangar deck, for example. In the movie, the ship came across differently. More 'industrial. Hoists and chains and very dark corridors. A little more sinister. I didn’t like the change. In the TV series, Serenity felt like a place you could call home. In the movie, it was just transportation. The engine room didn’t have Kaylee’s hammock, it just had lots of sparking and flames. The hallways were darker.

This movie was very good, but it was missing some of the essential character of Firefly.

59

You’re wrong, and that’s all there is to it! :mad: :slight_smile:

Wash dying was good to make the 'verse dangerous. If no one had died, would you have said there was no “sense of danger” to the battle? Book’s history can still be explored in a sequel. Or not. It’s fun to speculate on, and he told Mal what he needed to know the beat the Operative: Believe in something, as he does, or you won’t be dedicated enough to beat him.

A Bow and arrow likely had more changce of doing penetration against the reavers, and likely the little gun just didn’t pack a wallop or had not much juice. IMHO this is a silly objection.

The bad guy saw that his dream of a perfect world could be twisted so easily, and that the people he was trying to make the world better for were monsters.

Sound in space-I call producer’s interference. Can’t be helped.

The electrical cloud was a nebula. They exist in space. I’ll grant you it was a BIT of a DEM to have that there, but presumably it helped keep Mr. Universe hidden (something had to).

She was dangerous and the Alliance wanted her back. How else to show she’s dangerous than to have her do all of that amazing stuff?

Simon’s plan was rehearsed up to that point. He’s not good at spur-of-the-moment disguises; he’s a doctor, not a criminal, Jim!

I figured “Miranda” was part of a pre-programmed code they’d stuck in her head to control her, so the people like her and the Pax were going to be used together. The Operative went through the records and found that word, used it to make her go wonky.

And of course it was changed for a theater audience, if they were just depending on Firefly fans for money they wouldn’t get as much as if they went for crossover appeal.
This is all just my own opinion in a spirit of friendly debate, no hard feelings, Sengkelat. Even if you’re wrong. Which you are. :stuck_out_tongue:

60

Just saw it - loved it. And from the line we had at a late night showing (admittedly in Santa Clara on opening night) I think there’ll be enough for a sequel. My friend who’d never even heard of the show until today thought it was great.

Also, he said after, “Well you knew one of them was going to die.” It’s true – from the perspective of the movie, Book didn’t really count. Still, it’d be good to know his story if the second one is or largely contains a prequel.

There’s a lot that I liked that’s already been mentioned, but one thing I didn’t like was the reduction of Kaylee’s character. She maybe had a few good lines but she didn’t feel like one of the crew – only at the start does she have any real interaction with Mal or any engineering and from then on she’s pretty much a teenaged fan of Simon. (Sure I have a crush on her TV version, but so what, who doesn’t?) I had misgivings when she was all but absent in the trailer, and they unfortunately proved accurate.

Something else about the Reavers. In River’s dream the boy talks about the Reavers, even though the Pax disaster hadn’t occurred yet. Now that can be hand-waved (fanwanked?) away by saying they were manipulating her dreams, but I wonder if it’s possible that the Reavers were a group of pirates, lost on the fringes, maybe not as bad as their reputation, but then had their ranks swelled (and the legends made true) by the Miranda victims. Or it’s just a slip in writing. Either way, I did like the explanation given. I also like the idea that the Reavers actually won’t last long, but in this period they can’t be ‘waited out’. Makes them seem worse, since you know if you can only survive long enough, you’ll be fine.

Two rather unrelated questions:
With such an influence from Chinese culture and language, is it ever explained why there aren’t any Chinese people in the system?

I’m positive there was a show that I saw late at night about a year or two ago that might have been a Firefly copy. It was set on a spaceship and had three characters who looked roughly like Mal, Zoe, and Kaylee. I think it may have been a Canadian or British show; does anyone know what I’m talking about?