Serious question - where do we draw the line with acceptance of mental weirdness?

[matt_mcl]

@Slypork

So why is a person with Gender Identity Disorder, a recognized mental illness according to DSM-IV, acceptable to society at large but a person with Body Dysmorphic Disorder, another DSM-IV recognized disorder, considered mentally ill and in need of treatment, not acceptance?

Just because two conditions are in the DSM-IV does not mean that they are comparable. Headache and gangrene are both in my Dorland’s Medical Dictionary, but only one of those diseases should be treated with amputation.

That a condition is a mental illness, or that it is in the DSM-IV, does not mean that condition is a delusion. Depression, for example, or autism. That’s a dangerous misconception that does a great deal of harm to people with mental conditions. GID (accepting for the sake of argument that it is indeed a disease) is not considered a delusion, so it’s not appropriate to treat it as if it were.

[Slypork]

@matt_mcl

Just because two conditions are in the DSM-IV does not mean that they are comparable. Headache and gangrene are both in my Dorland’s Medical Dictionary, but only one of those diseases should be treated with amputation.

That a condition is a mental illness, or that it is in the DSM-IV, does not mean that condition is a delusion. Depression, for example, or autism. That’s a dangerous misconception that does a great deal of harm to people with mental conditions. GID (accepting for the sake of argument that it is indeed a disease) is not considered a delusion, so it’s not appropriate to treat it as if it were.

I never said that GID is a delusion. I said disorder, which is what the DSM-IV considers it. Both GID and BDD (or more specifically, BIID) pertain to the individual’s perception of the “self” and the incongruity with the body it inhabits.

Dr. Michael First, the editor of the DSM-IV and currently working on the DSM-V, has performed studies of people with Body Integrity Identity Disorder. These people describe being “forced” to live in the body they were born in and compare it to transgendered people who feel like they were placed in the wrong body. Their body image is not a mere “perception” or delusion. They feel just as strongly about the limb that needs to be amputated as a transgender person feels about having their body changed to be the “correct” gender. A person who was born male but “knows” that they are supposed to be female feels relief when the offending member is removed. A transabled person feels the same way about the hand or foot. It is just not supposed to be on their body and must be taken away.

According to this paper,

Seventeen per cent (n=9) had an arm or leg amputated with two-thirds using methods that put the subject at risk of death and one-third enlisting a surgeon to amputate their healthy limb. The most common reported reason for wanting an amputation was the subject’s feeling that it would correct a mismatch between the person’s anatomy and sense of his or her ‘true’ self (identity). None were delusional. For all but one subject age at onset was during childhood or early adolescence. For those who had psychotherapy or medication there was no change in the intensity of the desire for amputation. The six subjects who had an amputation at their desired site reported that following the amputation they felt better than they ever had and no longer had a desire for an amputation…

The condition is associated with serious negative consequences: amputation attempts, impairment and marked distress. Reflecting similarities between Gender Identity Disorder and this condition, the author suggests that it may be conceptualized as an unusual dysfunction in the development one’s fundamental sense of anatomical (body) identity.

I can’t begin to understand the notion that my left foot isn’t supposed to be part of my body any more than I can understand not knowing that I was born male. My body image says I always had two feet and my body image says that I always had a penis and I plan to keep everything as long as possible. I just wonder if a day will come when the mental health professionals change their ideas and treat BIID the same as GID and start offering amputations.

[SisterCoyote]

@BrainGlutton

Absolutely! Why, you can catch teh gay the very first time you suck a cock!

No I can’t. Maybe you can…

[Baldwin]

@VCO3

I know this might sound a little spicy, but I see no difference between someone saying, “while I am physically a man, I’ve felt that I was a woman since I was a child and I think of myself as a woman even though I have a penis and no breasts” and someone saying, “I’ve thought that I was a dog since I was a child, and I insist on eating Alpo out of a dog bowl, being walked on a leash, and peeing on fire hydrants.” There is *no * difference between those two things in my opinion, yet the first is a protected class that’s managed to somehow become allied with the gays and lesbians and the second would be placed in a mental hospital.

And your opinion is based on what, exactly? I’m curious because it contradicts the opinions of neurologists who have spent their careers studying the subject; maybe you’be done some ground-breaking research that hasn’t been published yet.

[Guinastasia]

@catsix

In the same way that it would if I woke up tomorrow and was black, or seven feet tall, or had four arms.

These are just not the kind of things that spontaneously happen, so any of them would be shocking.

Probably the hardest thing to get used to would be not hitting on straight guys.

I know, I was just kidding.

Now, it would bother me, personally, but that’s me. Everyone has a different idea of what defines them. So for some, it’s not a huge deal, and others, it is.

LonesomePolecat, I’m still waiting for that cite. :dubious: You’ve been around long enough to know that “common knowledge” doesn’t cut it here in GD.

[Guinastasia]

Um, never mind, LP, I was reading another thread simultaneously.
:smack:

[Miller]

@Guinastasia

Um, never mind, LP, I was reading another thread simultaneously.
:smack:

Don’t worry, I suspect his posts in both threads stem from the same basic misunderstanding of the nature of reasoned debate.