Severus Snape (Spoilers)

Cafe Society
101

Why couldn’t he have his mother’s book? IF it was her’s? It might have laid around at home, where he might have practiced in his own room–like the loner who craves power that he is. What are the odds that he would get his mother’s book when the texts were handed out?

I actually have a secret liking for Snape, but I consider him a tragic figure. I think he is a good guy–down waaaay deep. I also think that he doesn’t like being someone else’s dogsbody or minion–I think that contributed to his rescinding his Deatheater status. Voldemort is smart, but he is also proud and arrogant–it’s natural for V to think that Snape would want to play double agent. I also think that AD saw more than was revealed–I think back to his small reaction of satisfaction when Harry told him that V touched him in book 4. AD could see ahead, a bit (or made educated guesses) and that is why he trusts Snape.

just my 2 cents

102

Well, we do know he was inventing Sectumsempra while writing in the book, right? And don’t we see Snape flinging a cutting spell at James during “Snape’s Worst Memory” in his fifth year? Of course during OotP we haven’t “met” Sectumsempra yet, so it’s not mentioned by name. Also, it does very little damage – James only has a small amount of blood on his face – I’ve always thought it was an in-progress, unperfected version of the spell.

Or maybe I’m totally misremembering things, which is quite possible.

As far as why Snape isn’t a good teacher despite being brilliant, that’s a gimme. Teaching is such a complex art, and to be a truly excellent teacher you need to have intelligence, knowledge, curiosity, passion, patience, understanding, and generosity. Snape only has three, maybe four of those qualities. Compare him to colleagues such as McGonegall and Lupin, both of whom vastly outshine Snape as teachers. (Lupin especially. Though he’s less of a genius than Severus, I think Remus is just as powerful in his own area of expertise.)

Oh, I do love Snape. Such a multidimensional bastard.

103

Texts aren’t generally handed out; they’re purchased from Flourish and Blott’s, by students who have been directed to do so. I 'm positive that it was his mother’s book. I’m just a bit non-plussed that a fifth year (or earlier) student would be lugging around a book that he won’t be asked to have in his possession until sixth year.

104

But Snape is a loner–a social misfit, so to me it makes sense that he would have an intense interest in this. Excelling in potions makes him feel special and powerful, no?
I am also not surprised that he developed or discovered exreme curses etc.

105

You know, this touches on something that’s always bugged me about the books… If Harry knows that Voldemorte is out to kill him, and Voldemorte’s so powerful, etc., why doesn’t Harry study harder? I mean, if I knew this really bad guy with the power to kill me 20 times over, so to speak, was after me, I’d be learning everything I could as fast as I could. Instead, Hermione is still doing/correcting their homework. I’d think his effort level would be higher.

Snape would have been learning all he could, not just because he was a loner and had the time, but because it would be a significant advantage to him when he needed it.

106

Exactly, Bogette --I feel the same. It can be argued that much of the homework that Harry bitches about and shoves off onto Hermione is not the most interesting or useful, though. He does apply himself to summoning charms, and disapparition, and flying skills.

Frankly, if I had a prof like Trelawney or Toad Woman (forgot her name), I doubt I’d do much work either. He COULD apply himself in Potions, but Snape is not exactly fair, is he? (athough he did give Harry a high enough grade in Potions…)
IMO, Rowling doesn’t want to waste plot, time and paper on the habits of good students–that is not where the action is, afterall.

107

FTR, Snape did not give Harry his Potions OWL; that was determined as a result of the written and practical examinations that were administered and graded by the Ministry of Magic.

And why didn’t Snape write his extraneous stuff in the margins of the books he was doing his homework from during years 1-5? Why in an advanced Potions book that he was probably the only pre-OWL student carrying around? I’m not quibbling with him having it with him, just with the fact that he chose to use it as a sort of quasi-journal, when he had all those other books in front of him as well.

(Professor Delores Umbridge, by the way. Although I do kind of like the ring of Toad Woman.)

108

Remember, too, that Harry consistently gets top marks, higher even than Hermione, in Defense Against the Dark Arts, which is probably his most important class, in terms of fighting off Voldemort.

And maybe Snape wrote in all his other books, too: We haven’t seen any of them to compare. Possibly when he had something to write down, he just used whichever of his school books was most handy. Potions always were his specialty, though, so his potions book (or books) was probably often the one had open.

109

For all we know, it’s Slughorn’s pet favorite textbook and he assigns it to fifth-and-earlier-year students too. We only know that Harry and his classmates haven’t seen it before, but they didn’t have Slughorn as a teacher until this year.

I’m kind of inclined to agree that Harry is cheating, by the way, but most sixteen-year-olds don’t have much in the way of an academic ethic; I have a hard time picturing a plausibly-drawn teenager doing anything else, except for the occasional Hermione type.

110

On the opposite side of this point, I think you’ve also touched on why he would wind up such a lousy teacher–deep-seated self-esteem problems would probably lead him to reason that if he can come up with new spells and improvements to potions all on his own as a student, the little brats he’s teaching ought to be able to as well. And if they can’t, well, they don’t deserve to succeed. He shouldn’t *have *to teach them; they should just learn.

111

Let’s not forget that Harry is getting excellent grades in most of his classes (excepting History of Magic, Astronomy, Divination) and is second only to Hermione in scholastics, as far as we know. Even with a teacher that picks on him (Snape during potions) he gets a very good grade in his OWL year. With Hogwarts being the top (or only?) school for magic in the UK, this would be like coming in second in your year at Cambridge, Oxford or Eton (or Harvard or Yale in the US) - not too shabby. Also, being good at athletics such as Quidditch can be just as useful as being book-smart - when Harry was running, ducking, dodging and weaving to escape Voldemort in the cemetery at the end of Goblet of Fire, or the Death Eaters in the Ministry of Magic at the end of Order of the Phoenix, it wouldn’t have been good for him to stop after 100 yards and say “Time out! I’ve gotta take a breather.”

112

Yes, the mysterious gleam of triumph in Dumbledore’s eye when he finds out that Voldemort used Harry Potter’s blood as part of the spell / potion that brought Tom Riddle Jr. (I call Voldy that just to irritate him) back to life.

My theory on that is: Dumbledore knows that Harry Potter has special microscopic life-forms in his blood (mini-conjurians) that will slowly infect Tom Riddle Jr. (TRJ) and change his personality to the point that TRJ learns to Love, and Loves Harry Potter so much that he (TRJ) adopts Harry Potter and becomes the father figure that Harry Potter is lacking. Thus allowing for the revelation we have all been waiting for - “I am your father, Harry!”

113

Second to Hermione? His OWLs were:

Defence: O
Transfiguration: E
Potions: E
Charms: E
Care of Magical Creatures: E
Divination: P
History of Magic: D
Astronomy: A
Herbology: E

Surely Hermione’s not the only student getting Os.

Edit:

In HBP, Dumbledore says something to the effect of Harry’s blood being worth more than Dumbledore’s(in the scene where they are going after the horcrux, an offering of blood was necessary to get in through a door).

114

Well, I don’t often get to fanwank the Harry Potter books, so if this is already been discussed–my apologies.

My theory that explains the changing attitudes Dumbledore has about Snape. Only my theory. YMMV.

I think Harry himself is a Horcrux. The last and most powerful piece. “How could a small child survive the attack of Lord Voldemort?” What if Voldemort was never trying to kill him?

Voldemort had just killed two people in the immediate vicinity, with the closest of ties there could be to Harry. That gave Voldemort a lot of power, I assume, to do something very cruel–invest a baby with a piece of his existence.

(That could explain many of Harry’s gifts like Parseltongue.)

Dumbledore was sad to put him with such awful Muggles, but there he would have NO influence from the Dark Arts.

Snape knows that Harry is a horcrux. Dumbledore knows he knows.

It almost becomes a spy movie, or something. Keep your friends close and your enemies CLOSER. (That’s not from a spy movie, but I like the saying here.)

Snape wouldn’t do anything to physically hurt Harry, thus destroying the horcrux. In that way, Harry is safe.

Things change as Voldemort gains power and Dumbledore adjusts.

Snape’s cruelty to Harry is a result of his resemblance to James and Lily. Mental cruelty might even help the horcrux. Who knows? I never read any kind of 'shipping btw Lily and Snape. I think she pitied him. And I think that made him hate her even more–if I have to read btw the lines.

My theory isn’t fully thought out, but when reading HBP–I had an aha moment and that was what I thought.

115

Ohhh! good point! That’s it! We all know that the power of love will make a bad one good, make a wrong one right, THAT’S how Harry is gonna beat Riddle!

:smiley:

116

That theory’s been bandied about here before, BrassyPhrase, but the idea is usually that Harry being a Horcrux was accidental on Voldemort’s part, not deliberate. It’s hard to deny that things didn’t quite go according to Tommy-Boy’s plan that night, and he’s been trying to kill Harry ever since. He probably doesn’t even know himself that the spell backfired in that particular way.

Noodles, Harry is doing pretty well, overall, but it’s pretty clear that he’s not #2 in the school. Sure, he’s probably doing better than Ron or Neville, but they’re the only ones we’ve really seen him compared directly to. Meanwhile, though, McGonagal, his own Head of House, was telling him that he’d have to bring up his quality of work to get into her NEWT-level transfiguration classes. There are probably a half-dozen students in the other houses (especially the Ravenclaws, who value academics so highly) who are doing better than him.

117

You agree with me? I Love you man!

118

Rysto - good observation about Dumbledore’s comment re: Harry’s blood. I didn’t make the connection until you pointed it out.

Rysto, Chronos: One could presume that some other students are getting better grades than Harry. But from what is said in the books, we don’t know. We do know that Harry got better grades than Ron Weasley, who was made a prefect in Order of the Phoenix. One could assume that the best student in the year (for that House) gets made prefect, so I think it is logical to deduce that Harry is at least doing better than the other Gryffindor boys in his year.

On the other hand, it would seem logical that some Ravenclaws would be getting pretty high grades, since Ravenclaw is the House for smart people. However, perhaps Ravenclaws do well in written exams, but less well in practical exams? Or for some other reason don’t get the top marks (lack of boldness in Defense Against the Dark Arts or something like that?) We can’t really tell, because of something that has always disappointed me - the Ravenclaw students are much under-represented in the Harry Potter books. There are only two given significant dialogue, Cho Chang (introduced as Harry’s love interest and a good Quidditch player) and Luna Lovegood (lovable but batty.) There are a couple of them in Dumbledore’s army (Michael Corner, Terry Boot maybe?) but they don’t appear much. My guess has been that JK Rowling doesn’t emphasize the Ravenclaw students because it would mean bringing in more characters that are better in school / smarter than our three heroes. Notable Hufflepuff students have been: Ernie MacMillan, Zacharias Smith, Susan Bones, Hannah Abbott, Cedric Diggory. Notable Slytherins: Millicent Bulstrode, Pansy Parkinson, Blaise Zabini, and of course Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle.

119

Another idea that I have had, which I think can be another explanation of the Great Unsolved Mystery, why does Dumbledore trust Snape?

My previous ideas were: wizard debt to James Potter for saving Snape’s life, Snape in love with Lily Potter (still my number 1 choice.)

But here’s something new.
After Voldemort disappears from killing Harry Potter, why is Dumbledore so convinced that he will return? Seemingly alone in the wizard world - in chapter 1, Philosopher’s Stone, all the other wizards are celebrating!

Dumbledore knows that Voldemort is not dead, and will be back, because Voldemort has a horcrux (or more than one). How does he know this? Dumbledore might have suspected that Voldemort is making horcruxes (but it would not be his first thought, since Dumbledore knows very well that their is nothing at Hogwarts that even tells you what a horcrux is, let alone how to create one), or … Albus might have been told by Severus Snape! Snape, overcome with remorse after finding out that Voldemort will kill the Potters (and here I can include the Snape loves Lily theme into my idea), goes to Dumbledore and tells him “Voldemort is unkillable, he knows how to make a horcrux, and already has one! He got the idea from blabbermouth Horace Slughorn!”
Dumbledore knows that this is something that Voldemort would never want to be known. This is a major proof of Snape’s loyalty.

Another proof: in Half-Blood Prince, when Bellatrix Lestrange and Narcissa Malfoy visit Snape in his home, Snape delivers this information: “Dumbledore has been a great wizard, but the duel against Voldemort has much weakened him.” Another proof of his loyalty to Dumbledore! He lied here - Dumbledore is not weak because of the duel against Voldemort, Dumbledore is weak because he was wounded when destroying the horcrux hidden in Marvolo’s ring! Snape and Dumbledore know that news of Dumbledore’s injured hand will get to Voldemort sooner or later, so they concoct this cover story, which will be all the more believable to Voldemort because it will flatter his vanity (I knew that I could beat Dumbledore in a fair fight if no one interrupted!)

I can even throw in an answer to the question “Why does Dumbledore trust Snape to teach DADA in Half-Blood Prince, when he never trusted him before?” Becuase Snape helped him destroy a Voldemort horcrux (the one in Marvolo’s ring). We know, since Dumbledore told Harry, that the injury to Dumbledore would have been fatal if Snape had not helped him. Is it a big leap to assume that Snape was actually present? No!

Then the question arises - why would Dumbledore not bring Snape along with himself and Harry when they go get Slytherin’s locket in the cave? Several possibilities: Dumbledore needs Snape to remain behind to guard Hogwarts, because Dumbledore knows that Draco Malfoy is dangerous. And/or, Dumbledore was intending on bringing Snape along, but Harry bursts into the office shouting “Snape betrayed my parents!” Dumbledore becomes pale, because he knows that Harry now will never trust Snape, and that it would be a horrible idea to bring Snape along on their quest, because Harry and Snape will be fighting the whole time.

120

There were a bunch of students signed up for 6th year potions, with books purchased. They must have gotten Os or they would not have thought they would be allowed to sign up (which was what Harry and Ron thought). This included Malfoy. (The only 3 Gryffindors in this class are Hermione, Ron and Harry so Harry is probably the top male Gryffindor scholar of his year.)

Another explanation is that all of the other heads of houses told their charges on a timely basis that an E would be sufficient.