Sex, Fatherhood, Depression and Teenage Angst.

[Harmonix]

I’ve been wondering about this for quite a while now.

I really haven’t studied any psychology, but this makes sense to me.

Evolution has shaped Human beings to begin reproduction at 13-15ish age. Western Society dictates that we shouldn’t begin until we’re 20ish. Now most women have some sort of urge to have children as they grow older. I wonder what the effect is on men? Depression certainly leaps to mind. As well as some other rather vulgar/hideous acts. Has a study ever been done on the coorelation between depression and men whom don’t mate as they age?

It certainly would explain quite a bit of teenage anst eh?

[LanceUSMC]

I dunno! All I can say is if I go a day without ‘mating’ or any like rituals, I get kind of depressed.

[norinew]

Evolution shaped us to begin reproducing so young way back when 30 was old! Mother nature (or God) wanted us to be around to raise our kids. This is no longer applicable. If evolution didn’t want us having babies into our 30s and sometimes even 40s, we (women) would have been designed to hit menopause at 25 or so. Clearly, this isn’t the case.

[Lamia]

Originally posted by Harmonix *
**
Evolution has shaped Human beings to begin reproduction at 13-15ish age.*

Just a century ago the average age of the onset of menstruation in the US was 14, and many girls did not begin until they were several years older than that. In the more distant past, adolescents seem to have hit reproductive age even later. The causes of the drop in the age of the onset of puberty are still not fully understood, but they seem to be environmental rather than evolutionary.

[ultrafilter]

*Originally posted by norinew *
**Evolution shaped us to begin reproducing so young way back when 30 was old! Mother nature (or God) wanted us to be around to raise our kids. This is no longer applicable. If evolution didn’t want us having babies into our 30s and sometimes even 40s, we (women) would have been designed to hit menopause at 25 or so. Clearly, this isn’t the case. **

30 has never been old as long as we’ve had agriculture. Life expectancies were low back then because of high infant mortality rates, but if you made it past your first year, 70 or 80 wasn’t ridiculously uncommon.

[Harmonix]

Ok, well I suppose I can reshape the OP then. evolution says 2-3 years after puberty as opposed to 5-10 years in western society.

Question still stands. Anyone know of anything?

[Lamia]

*Originally posted by Harmonix *
**Ok, well I suppose I can reshape the OP then. evolution says 2-3 years after puberty as opposed to 5-10 years in western society.
**

Evolution does not “say” anything.

When it comes to the health of the mother and child, the ideal age for childbearing has never been younger than the early 20s. The final widening of the hips does not occur in women until that age, nor is the skeleton finished developing.

As for your question about depression, we used to have a poster around here who repeatedly claimed that huge numbers of men commit suicide due to depression caused by their inability to get laid. He had no evidence to support this claim. He was also crazy. I am unaware of any reputable psychological source that claims a lack of nookie in adolescence leads to depression, although it may well lead to wrist problems and the need to buy Kleenex in bulk.

[ratatoskK]

Just my non-professional opinion… but I’ve always thought that there was a likelihood that teenage neurosis (which seems to be so widespread) could be due at least in part to the social extension of childhood way beyond the biological age of adulthood. I don’t just mean the “not getting laid” thing, I mean totally being dependent on the parents and not able to exert their personality. So I’d be interested if an evolutionary psychologist could chime in on this…

[Lissa]

*Originally posted by Lamia *
**Just a century ago the average age of the onset of menstruation in the US was 14, and many girls did not begin until they were several years older than that. In the more distant past, adolescents seem to have hit reproductive age even later. The causes of the drop in the age of the onset of puberty are still not fully understood, but they seem to be environmental rather than evolutionary. **

There sure are plenty of theories as to why girls are hitting puberty at younger ages, and most of them claim it’s dietary.

Such as this article which claims “More Fiber, Later Periods.” Taking into account that earlier diets contained a lot more plant materials, it seems to make sense.

Many researchers blame the high content of fat in our diets, pointing out that when a woman is starving herself of fats, such as in those women who are anorexic or have highly athletic lifestyles, periods can cease altogether. Girls who have diets high in fat tend to menstruate earlier. It’s been argued that the body senses that the girl is well-fed and can support the nourishment of a fetus, so it devotes resources into preparing the girl for pregnancy.

Dr. Paul Kaplowitz from the Medical College of Virginia, co-chair of the panel that wrote the new pediatric guidelines, believes that “at least part of the explanation is overweight” since a certain amount of body fat is required for normal reproductive function. Fat cells manufacture leptin, a hormone that might be involved in triggering puberty. If girls get to a higher level of body fat and secrete enough leptin a few years earlier than they did in the past, it is possible that the first signs of puberty could emerge earlier. However, since puberty often causes weight gain, it is difficult to determine whether obesity causes early puberty or vice versa.

(Link below. It’s the last one.)

Some people who oppose bovine growth hormones claim that early onset of mentuation and a host of other ailments are a result of them.
This article says:

It is “very likely” that hormone residues in North American beef is a factor in the early onset of puberty among girls in recent decades, said Carlos Sonnenschein of the Tufts University School of Medicine at Boston. “There is no other reason to explain it,” Sonnenschein said in an interview Friday.

Pediatricians say the onset of menstruation has steadily decreased in recent decades. The average age for a first period is now 12½, up from age 14 in 1900.

Early onset of puberty with its raging hormones translates into higher risk of breast cancer, said Sonnenschein.

This organization claims that chemicals in fire retardants are to blame.

Foods that were contaminated in Michigan in 1973, when a fire retardant containing the chemical polybrominated biphenyl PBB was accidentally mixed with animal feed, have been associated with an early onset of menstruation and pubic hair in some daughters of the women exposed, scientists reported in the journal Epidemiology (Nov. 2000, Vol. 11, No. 6.) The daughters of the most highly exposed women began menstruation, on average, before they reached their twelfth birthdays."

This one says:

If girls are starting puberty earlier, it is important to determine the potential causes and consequences. Many scientists believe that earlier puberty is caused, in part, by the widespread exposure to pesticides and other chemicals that have qualities like estrogen. There are a number of studies showing that chemicals that disrupt the endocrine system can affect pubertal development or sexual behavior in animals (Guillette, et al., 1994; Howdeshell, et al., 1999; Yamomoto et al., 1996). Those studies, and many others implicating the effects of endocrine-disrupting chemicals on reproductive function, were described in the seminal work, Our Stolen Future by Coburn, Dumanoski, and Myers (Coburn, et al., 1996). In addition, there are studies in people that show a correlation between exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals and changes in pubertal development. One of the most provocative studies shows that Puerto Rican girls who have premature breast development have higher blood levels of a particular type of chemical called phthalates, used in many cosmetics, toys, and plastic food containers (Colon, et al., 2000). A recent study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that women of childbearing age have the highest levels of phthalates in their blood, perhaps putting their future children at risk of early puberty or other reproductive problems (Blount, et al., 2000).

[Harmonix]

Evolution does not “say” anything.

Heh, and I call myself a biology major!

Yes, you are right. But I was referring to the human female trait of wanting to have children. Stabalizing selection has selected for a brain chemistry which gives women the urge to have children a few years post-puberty. Usually in the 20’s i’d suppose.

Just my non-professional opinion… but I’ve always thought that there was a likelihood that teenage neurosis (which seems to be so widespread) could be due at least in part to the social extension of childhood way beyond the biological age of adulthood.

Yes, yes! this is exactly what I was trying to get at. Any psychologists out there?

[Dogface]

Some anecdotal family history:

I’m the first man in five generations in my family to not have children until I was 30. The rest were fathers before they were 20 (at most). I’m the first one in generations not to be divorced, not to live in a bottle, etc. by 35. Mental health is as much a social matter as it is individual. At 30 I was far better prepared for the stress of fatherhood added on to the demands of “making a living” in our present society than I was at 20 or younger.