Ok, so I got a new job, and had to go through TWELVE FREAKING HOURS of orientation. The subject matter could all have been covered in half a day, but that’s a big corporation for you. Anyhoo, we got about a half hour lecture on the subject of sexual harassment. We got the usual if someone turns you down for a date, don’t continue asking, don’t make vulgar remarks if the person lets you know it makes them uncomfortable, etc.
But here’s the thing that frosts my ovaries. If someone overhears you talking to someone else, or sees you looking at naughty pictures or reading naughty material, and they don’t like what they hear or see, it can be considered harassment. WTF? You’re in the breakroom reading Playgirl or swapping jokes with a co-worker,next thing you know,you’re in the Human Resources office explaining why you were harassing some third party you may not have even noticed was there.
I realize that sexual harassment in the workplace is a serious problem, and there need to be some guidelines for acceptable behavior, but, sheesh. I just don’t get how someone who eavesdrops on other people’s private conversations, or looks over someone else’s shoulder to see what they’re reading can have a valid harassment complaint.
I think that not being able to joke with a co-worker, or read what I want in the break room (not shoving it in someone else’s face) because of fear of having a sexual harassment complaint filed against me by some busybody sticking their nose in where it doesn’t belong creates a hostile work environment.
not as a defense, but perhaps as an explanation. You’re operating from the standpoint of “I could be completely innocently having a discussion, blah , blah, blah”
and yea, that’s true.
It’s also true that there exist some schmucks who would go to great lengths to pointedly only have derogetory (sp??) conversations deliberatly in some one’s hearing, would pointedly be looking at hard core porn on purpose just 'cause they know the most conservative person was coming around the corner.
the thing that they said was “can be”. So, if you’re into telling racist jokes, probably shouldn’t do it at the work place.
Like I said, I’m not saying they’re right in enforcing, just that I can see (have been exposed to) folks who would use the “I didn’t know so and so was there” routine to pointedly harass them.
You are, of course, welcome to do what you wish, get fired, and sue.
The fact is that the law, as interpreted by the courts, is clear that “third party harassment” of the type that you mentioned is not acceptable in the workplace, and that employers are subject to severe penalties unless they do not allow it and proactively attempt to prevent it. You are entitled to disagree, or attempt to change the situation, but that’s the situation. Bottom line; you don’t get to decide what may or may not be hostile environment to other people, but if you want to claim something new is a hostile environment, you’re going to have to go to court or the legislature.
My wife is a management training consultant. One of the courses she teaches is sexual harassment awareness (and it’s usually 2.5 hours for non-managers and 3 hours for managers). She has an anecdote that seems relevant.
She was presenting the course in a company where she’s presented that course literally hundreds of times (it’s a pretty big company) The group consisted of people from two workgroups. The members of one workgroup “pushed back” more than is typical. They said things like “we’re in our own environment with the door closed, and who are you, the government, or the company to tell us what we do behind closed doors in our own room? We all like the jokes, the teasing is universal, and it’s a way of relieving stress in a tough job”.
After the session. two participants approached her. One (from the “pushing back” workgroup) said “It isn’t OK with me; the teasing is out of control; but I don’t think I can go against the pressure of the group”. The other (from the other workgroup) said that his group had to interact with that group, and they actually drew straws to choose who had to go through the unpleasantness of that interaction.
So, do not assume what is acceptable to your co-workers.
I had to go though the sexual harassment seminar at a university. (I’m a professor.) They talked about all kinds of things that could be considered harassment, including third party. The thing that appalled and amazed me, was they NEVER mentioned having sex with the students. I couldn’t believe that this wouldn’t be the first thing on the list for the instructors.
Try a half day on that one subject. By the time we walked out of that room, all I knew was that I was not allowed to talk to a woman outside my line of duty, touch her, or look at her below the neck. And don’t stare at her face too long either.
I know why we need sexual harrasment laws. Years ago, my aunt worked as a secretary in a factory in a hard core redneck little town. The one and only time she stepped out onto the production floor one of the knuckle draggers tossed her over his shoulder, took her back to the office area, and patted her on the butt while he told her she needed to learn her place. Her boss thought the whole thing was most amusing.
But it’s gone way too goddam far. One of the things that keeps me going is the occasional pat on the back from my boss or a friend. Not anymore, that’s sexual harrasment. It’s gotten a lot heavier lately. We just had a nice grandfatherly old mechanic get escorted off site because somebody sent him a dirty joke on email, and some anal bitch from upstairs read it on his screen over his shoulder before he deleted it. First offense, no history of problems, no warnings. I had a minor tangle myself at a previous job and now I play them very close to the gravy stains. I could write a book but it’d be too depressing to sell.
At my work there was a coworker that had just been fired for sexual harrassment recently before I was hired. What was his “harrassment”?
He hugged his girlfriend. He wasn’t even on duty. His girlfriend came to pick him up, and he hugged her. Some lady buy her groceries felt uncomfortable about it, complained to the manager, and filed a 3rd person sexual harrassment suit.
I know that sexual harrassment is real, but I also know most of it is complete bullshit.
I’ve had a couple of run-ins with bullshit sexual harrassment claims:
I was once fired from a job because me and a coworker were talking about the percentage of gay men when compared to the percentage of gay women and what effect, if any, this would have on the upcoming elections. Someone in the next room overhead and took offense, and complained to the manager.
A teacher in high school once filed sexual harrassment against me because I said “ass”.
Sexual harrassment started out good, but went downhill from there.