Have I just been harrassed?

In My Humble Opinion
1

There’s a gentleman in my office, a foreign national who is the director of another department. Although our jobs are related only in that we work for the same company, he stops by my cube sometimes and shows interest in me, my breasts, and what we’re doing with ourselves. I should also tell you that although he is a foreign national, his English is fluent and subtle, and he is conversant in about 6 other languages as well. (In other words, he knows what he’s saying.)

He popped in just now and we chatted for a moment about the job situation, etc, then he asked me “Have you found him yet?” (This refers back to a conversation we had long ago in which he discovered I’m not married and asked me about my sex life. I blushed, looked down, and indicated I didn’t really have one. He then told me that someday I would find the right man to marry and have fun with him. He leered at me, and said “Oh, yes, I can tell, he will have a good time. Lucky man.”) I said no not yet, and he said, “Oh, yes, he is out there and you will find him. And he will have a good time. I know.” Then he gave me one last full body ogle, smiled, and went back to his office.

It’s almost as though he wants me to say, “Well, since mystery dream guy hasn’t shown up yet, if you’re free this weekend why don’t you give it a whirl?” He’s never come out and propositioned me, and I don’t feel threatened, but it is just kind of creepy. Harrassment or no?

2

According to all the classes the Navy made me attend, you have to tell him his comments and looks make you uncomfortable (to say nothing of the inappropriateness of them in a workplace environment). Should the matter come up again, after your talk, then it is harrassment. You shouldn’t have to feel anything is “creepy” at work. FTR, I don’t blame you for feeling the way you do. He sounds as though he needs a small education on topics of conversation best left outside of work. (And, no this doesn’t mean he should be allowed to corner you in the parking lot or at a party and get away with the same behavior.) Bottom line, if it makes you uncomfortable, let him know. But if you don’t let him know, he’ll think it must be a suitable topic of discussion for work.

3

well, I’d say off hand that if some one in a professional setting starts assessing your sexual habits out of the blue

  1. This is inappropriate behavior in general for office settings, public settings.
  2. You state that you feel uncomfortable by the attention
    THese two factors make the situation a ‘problem’.

If I were in the situation, and the question would come up about boyfriends whatever, the answer is “that’s my personal life” “I don’t feel comfortable discussing this with you” and fold it neatly into a job related thing (do you have those sales figures?). If he drops it, fine. If he continues, repeat “I’ve told you before I find this inappropriate discussion at work.” and you have the option of talking to your supervisor, as in “Gentleman A, when stopping by my desk, interjects personal comments expecting answers. I’ve told him I find such behavior distracting and inappropriate for the work setting, can you help get the message across”.

There are cultural differences, yes, however, to me the key is you are now uncomfortable with a coworker, this can interfere with getting work done.

4

Yeah, what he said.

5

All the behviors you mention come under the accepted definition of sexual harassment, and the fact that it makes you uncomfortable clinches it. He doesn’t have to be intending to harass you–the decision is yours to make.

In all probability your company has an official policy on how to handle these situations. Most strongly prefer that the initial step be an informal attempt on your part to get him to stop in the ways that wring suggested. However, it’s not true that you must confront him in order to have it defined as harassment. I’m sure you can imagine situations where it would be very difficult and stressful for an employee to do that. In most companies there is a person in charge of hearing harassment complaints, so it’s your choice whether you confront him or not.

To me it sounds like you are friendly enough with him to tell him to knock it off. Chances are he thinks you like it. Standards of office behavior differ hugely from one country to another. You’ll only be doing him a favor if you let him know that he’s on dangerous ground.

6

Yes, it’s harrassment. Being a foreign national, he may not be up on our rules. Perhaps you should tell him that he is creeping you out and that he has crossed the line of acceptable and professional behaviour.

7

Definitely. We have an two rules in our office about this: If you wouldn’t say/do it to a man, don’t say/do it to a woman (or vice versa, but that rarely happens). And if anyone tells you to stop saying or doing anything that doesn’t pertain to business, comply.

It’s so damn easy, but some people don’t seem to get it.

8

Keep in mind that he is from another country. So while I’m not defending his behavior, depending on where he’s from, I can readily see where he probably thinks absolutly nothing of it. If you’ve never really lived or travelled extensivly in Europe, you probably can’t imagine the cultural differances. Italian men can be very blatant in their speach, and manerism.

I understand that he’s now in the US, and must abide by our rules, I’m just saying that you should probably have someone in managment talk to him about it, and just let him know that he has to act differently now. And for yourself, make it a teasing reminder if he does it again. “Hey Guido, remember, ya got to watch that stuff, it’s a no no here”

Good luck, but try and get it resolved soon, the longer it goes on, the harder it will be for him to change his ways.

9

Could be cultural. Talk to him about it.

I’ve seen University Prof’s with Centerfold pics on their office walls here. And feminism is thought of as a silly concept to most of the women I’ve talked to. They deal with men being pigs, in fact, they sometimes cater to it. Having a see-through shirt with a black bra is normal office attire during the summer. Really. They don’t even think twice about it. (as an aside- I’ve even seen a girl attend a wedding in a completely sheer dress with black bra and panties.)

So, I would tell him to stop. If he does it again, get a witness and tell him that in no uncertain terms he will be in deep doo-doo if he does it again. I think you’ll even feel better about yourself if you stand up to him- take back control of your body AND the situation.

-Tcat

10

Wow what I’ve heard from everyone is very thoughtful and contientous advice, which will come in handy if you think you might end up pressing charges against him. Here’s my 2 cents. Exude sexual confindence - even virgins can communicate that through posture, stance and an aggressive stride (don’t hip-totter on your heels, that just says you want to get laid) Don’t be the prey, be the predator. Whenever the creep stops to talk to you make sure you glance(not oggle), with eyes only, no head turning, at any male that comes into your line of sight, while you are still conversing with the creep(and no loosing your train of thought); that will let him know that you are not his (potential)plaything, but that you will consider other males (romantically). make sure that when a very smart guy you know passes by, call him over, make only quick,obligatory introductions, and ask the co-worker about something you know he will anser and answer intelligently, making sure you stay riveted to what your coworker says, with only a look or two to the creep, just to make him feel part of this social interaction. dismiss your co-worker by asking him where he is off to(before you called him over)after he leaves tell the creep you have to get back to work. this should all happen in the scope of about 1-2 min., before the creep gets bored and excuses himself out, if he does, acknowledge his departure big: make sure you raise your eyebrows, and say loudly OK then,see you later(after he has walked away about 3 feet) This interaction will communicate to him that men you choose to consider will have to pursue you publicly in the social structure of your choosing, he will have to pit his qualities against other men (what’s so special about him?), and that he will have to possess sufficient intelligence to impress you. If you can get him to subconciously buy into the contest, YOU CAN ALSO REJECT HIM(don’t crush him, you might spoil him for all women-misoginy)Do not make the contest physical(no humks) or cultural(discrimanatory) but only intellctual. Don’t ever be rude or make the creep openly feel put on the spot to defend his manhood - that’ll only piss him off!
(I swear I was born in the wrong century)
The best thing I can say to you is to be aware of the creep’s demeaner: do you think he’s just lewd and lacivious, is he just a normal-strength jerk who trys to flaunt his sexual prowess, thinking this might improve access to you because he thinks you’re vulnerable, is he a threat to your job? Or are you just out and out scared because you can’t decipher his intentions due to his uncivility? Is he a schemer or a stalker? Do you really think he’s mature enough to be concillatory when you tell him you dissapprove of his overtures, if not,broadcast (informally, maybe not a written complaint) his creepiness to others (prferably females in power). Good Luck and Be Careful.

11

Mr. Greenjeans, she’s not trying to ATTRACT him, for Chrissake!

What wring and TequilaMockingbird and other real smart people said: The next time he does it, say “I know you mean well, but I don’t like to discuss my personal life at work. Please stop asking me questions or making comments about my personal life. It makes me very uncomfortable.” Followed by something work related. If he really does “mean well”, then he will be very sorry and embarrassed at making you uncomfortable. If he doesn’t, and persists in the behavior, then you can take it to the next level.

Whether corporate policy or the law dictate that you should confront harrassers informally before taking it to the next level, I think it is generally a good idea. It gives you a leg to stand on later if things get worse.

Good luck, and I’m sorry you have to work with Captain Oogie.

12

Been there…

Write a letter…

Dear Mr. xxxx:

I’m afraid that I have left you with the impression that I find discussion of my personal life and sexual innuendo appropriate for the workplace. I do not. While I appreciate your friendship and the kindness shown to me, your interest in my personal life is making me uncomfortable. I am sure that this is just a misunderstanding, and that no harm was intended on your part, which is why I am not making a formal complaint.

Sincerely,

MissDavis102

cc your boss and his boss. He’ll get called on the rug - as will you, but your butt is covered if he gets nasty. If you just tell him, he could get nasty and then it becomes he said/she said. Also, you’ve just made it perfectly clear to your boss, his boss (and HR and Legal) that you know how to cover your butt and are not to be messed with.

If he’s classy, you will get an apology from him.

Also, from this point forward, journal your contact with him.

13

Dangerosa,
I don’t agree with your idea. At least not the idea of copying it to your boss and his boss. What’s the point of telling him you’re not going file a complaint if you actually are filing a complaint within that very letter? It doesn’t matter if you don’t do it in so many words, you’re turning him in. To feign ignorance of the consequences of that letter doesn’t make you innocent.

Turn him in, if you want to. But not like that. Or if you don’t want to, then write the letter if you can’t confront him in person. But give it only to him. Keep a copy for yourself if you need to.

14

I had a good post in the other, locked duplicate thread. Or so I thought.

15

I’d disagree a bit…

I think that a key part of sexual harrassment lies in that you have in someway been victimized, either through denial of opportunities or by being forced to work in a hostile atmosphere.

If you don’t even know if you’ve been harrassed or not, then I’d say no, you were not harrassed. A “vaguely creepy” feeling about someone IMHO is not harrassment. I have vaguely creepy opinions of a substantial majority of people in my workplace, but I don’t think they are all harrassing me…

16

jeez you lot get uptight about nothing.
i’d say it’s a cultural misunderstanding. european women (and he sounds european) would construe his comments as a bit of harmless flirting or a compliment (remember that italian men are LEGALLY allowed to pinch women’s bottoms at work!) and if you don’t feel this way, all you gotta do is tell him. it seems churlish to make a complaint without having warned him or given him an opportunity to apologise.

17

I’ve never worked in an office, but I would guess it’s up to the company policy/definition of “harrassment.” This certainly doesn’t seem like sexual harrassment to me. If someone you work with is saying or doing anything - sexual or not - that makes you uncomfortable, just tell him (or her) so. What’s so difficult about that? Just say “None of your business.” If he persists, say “Look, I TOLD you I don’t want to talk to you about my personal life. Go away unless you have work to talk about.”

You don’t say if he’s a superior or not, but I didn’t get that impression. I’ve tended bar & been in construction most of my working life, and my impression is that this whole harrassment thing has gotten people a bit oversensitive. If you don’t like what he says, tell him to stop. If he persists, knee him in the nuts. (Just kidding.)

I gotta agree with irishgirl on this one.

18

A clarification please. I don’t like the word “harrassed” and I didn’t use it in my response.

What I did say, and stand behind: the behavior as noted is inappropriate for most work places, notably an office setting. That the individual on the recieving end was uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of the comments. Those two things make it a problem (that it was inappropriate AND that the person on the receiving end didn’t appreciate it).

Do I think every mention of sex religion or politics constitutes a problem at the work place? no. But some topics are not conducive to good working relations. Are some people more thin skinned than others? of course. However, being a good coworker, I’d rather not bug my coworkers, right? and, being a supervisor, if a **non work related ** discussion/series of remarks whatever is interferring with my employees being able to do their jobs, then absolutely, I’m interested.

19

Full honors to the OP for a thoughtful, humane treatment of a problem. I strongly suspect my answer will be less than useful but here goes…

There’s discomfited, maybe even annoyed, and then there’s seriously uncomfortable. I’m not saying any of it’s right but there are endless shades of gray. My usual litmus test is “what’s the real intention?” In my experience, age and other factors count for a lot.

I really, really don’t want to start a firestorm here, but background matters. Ah, heckers. Without mincing words, some men of different generations and national backkgrounds just plain handle even working relationships with women differently. Not always and necesarily wrong, just differently. In my experience, many older men and those from certain backgrounds view a certain tribute to femininity as a happy obligation.

May I be blunt? (Sure, why not…already put my foot in it.) Okay, old geezers may flirt and others–especially Latin and (decreasingly) U.S. Southern/Western men–sometimes put a “you wear undies, I wear shorts” glint/spin on even casual work things. It’s all variable as hell. Could be just salvaging human zest outta work mundanities. Then again, could be a much nastier ploy–which sure happens too.

My reaction? Most guys are gentlemen at heart, if given a chance. The guy’s a foreign national; he probably feels askew anyway. The usual clues and cues aren’t holding. It depends. Trust your gut instinct.

Toldja this was a messy, vague “answer”. Sometimes tact and talk handles things. Then again, other times it doesn’t.

What are his actual intentions, i.e. bonding, company, predation? How receptive would he be to honest, receptive feedback? (But no matter what–document. Hate to be a cynic, but take notes on the conversation, date 'em and file 'em. You can always shred them later.)

Veb
(Sigh. Screwed the pooch on bolding–left out a bracket. It’s the curse of the wordy.)

[Edited by TVeblen on 06-17-2001 at 07:11 PM]

20

Here is what has happened to many women I know when they verbally confront, or put it in writing, but don’t cover their butts by copying their boss. I’ve been there, and subsequently worked with sexually harrassed women for a woman’s volunteer group…

Mr. XXXX gets nasty. He is higher on the food chain than you. He begins attacking (because you might get him in trouble). Within six months you are fired, or laid off. Or, best case, branded a troublemaker. In one case, this took less than six weeks, from chummy friendship with sexual undertones that the women found uncomfortable, to the woman being escorted out the door.

Thus, my advice is always to put it in writing and cover your butt, but in a way that lets the company know that you aren’t going to court tomorrow. In fact, I often advise consulting an attorney at this stage if you can afford it. Sounds drastic, but if you need your job…

If you give the letter to him and only him, he will claim he never got it. Easy enough to do, and you can never prove you did give it to him.

I’m not saying that it always follows that things turn nasty - you might mention casually that you are uncomfortable and your problems disappear with no consequences. And, granted, they turned nasty for me and the women I’ve worked with, but we are the ones who seek out sexual harrassment support groups - a self fullfilling sample. But if there are consequences to the casual mentioning of your feeling of inappropriateness, you will start battle on the defensive - probably with no idea that you’ve started battle. And, your chances are very good you will loose.

Your other option is to put up with it. Which I think is wrong - you should have to work with someone who treats you like a cheap lay. It also sets a bad precedence if things get worse.