I understand that. But, the argument in favor of creating a new forum is to remove the sex threads from IMHO and MPSIMS, because some users find them offensive. That’s the same argument used in deciding to create Cafe Society. Offensive, overwheming, tiresome, whatever; it’s all the same argument. Essentially, it’s quarantining some topics.
I don’t have a problem with that, if that’s what people want. What makes me laugh is the people who don’t want to be offended by sex talk and flirting, but removing those threads from their sight isn’t good enough, either. They apaprently want them banned, all together. I guess intolerance is one form of ignorance they don’t object to, as long as it’s not aimed at them.
Are you saying the users on this board are dumber than the average AOL user? Actually, I do get your point, but I don’t agree with it. Yes, it’s sometimes difficult to know if a question goes in GQ, IMHO, or GD. Maybe, even, CS. But, this one would be the simplest of all; if it’s about sex or relationships, it goes in the new forum. Nothing tricky about it. I suppose we could complicate it one step further, and say it goes in the new forum, unless it’s a legal question.
But, I still don’t care much, one way or the other. I support the idea, because I think it would make some people happy, and give others one less thing to bitch about. But, I think it’s pointless to debate it, unless and until we have a visitation from one of the Archangels of Cecil, informing the faithful that the All-Knowing One is considering the idea. Otherwise, we’re just flapping our lips (or, fingers, really) pointlessly.
No reason. The forums aren’t set up around specific topics, but around “types of questions”. Cafe society is something of an aberration, but I suppose it was deemed a large enough topic for its own forum. (As well, I suspect it makes it much easier to stop copyright violations when most are kept to one forum). Finally, there are a billion sex/relationship forums on the internet; why add another forum here?
Maybe instead of a forum there could be a new tag: [CFSBN]
Are there even enough sex/relationship threads to make a forum? If CFSBN aversion is the reason for making a new forum I think it would be better to tag them with CFSBN rather than start a sex/relationships ghetto. What about people who like TMI threads but not CFSBN threads? There’s already a TMI tag for people who are annoyed by purient topics so why not add a tag for people who are annoyed by CFSBN?
Let it never be said that the Teeming Millions have left any orifice unplumbed or no bodily function unexamined, no matter how unlikely or inoffensive to the casual eye. But for pure over-load revulsion we’d have to draft both Coldy and UncaBeer into duty…
That shuddering we all feel underfeet is either seismic barfing or systolic overload from two continents.
The difference between the sex threads and the CS threads is that the latter still, in a sense, purports to Fight Ignorance in some form, while the former is doing nothing of the sort. Cafe Society is just a more specific form of GQ and IMHO rolled into one. A sex/relationship forum, from what I can tell, would be more “Who wants to hook up?” than “Can anyone tell me why my orgasms last 1 second?”
Just because people don’t want to see something doesn’t mean they’re ignorant of it to begin with - or intolerant, for that matter. This is a board that has an informative base. The “fluffier” fora (CS, IMHO, and MPSIMS) still have informative roots; people can go to those fora to learn something or teach others. [Okay, MPSIMS is an exception, because it’s a catchall for everything else.] The more-serious fora (the two Comments fora, ATMB, GQ, and GD) are more representative of what the board was originally designed for - an extension of the column. The Pit kind of straddles the two “categories,” as it’s both fluffy and informative.
So out of nine current fora, you have five that are disinctly informative (in keeping with the intended theme of the message board and the columns), one that is equally informative and fluffy, two that are mostly fluffy but with strong roots in informativeness, and one that’s completely fluffy - but only because it’s a catchall for everything. MPSIMS is the exception, not the rule, in other words.
Simple does not equal stupid in this case. I think you recognize that, but just to make sure …
I don’t think it’s difficult at all - that’s my point. Because there are few “subject-specific” fora, it’s usually easy to see where the thread goes. It’s rare, I think, that people post a thread in the wrong forum.
The problem is that you might not be able to stop there. If a sex/relationship forum is acceptable, then why not a legal forum? Or a computer forum? There are plenty of current posts that would fit into either of those fora.
Yeesh, Davebear, defensive much? I can’t see where anyone here is calling for banning of flirting/sex threads. It’s not intolerant to wish to remain ignorant of TMI.
I don’t support another forum for any purpose unless they’re big themes like Cafe Society was. Computer questions is not a big enough category either.
dantheman, thank you for a cogent and articulate analysis. I agree that whether a new sex-and-relationships forum makes sense depends on how it will advance the Board’s core mission of “Fighting Ignorance.”
I think of the nine existing forums a little differently than you do. Five primary forums–CCC, CSR, GQ, GD, and CS–directly carry out the core mission. The other four secondary forums–ATMB, IMHO, MPSIMS, and the Pit–are incidental to that mission, but support it in necessary or important ways.
Of the four “secondary” forums, one (ATMB) is administrative, and the other three (IMHO, MPSIMS, and the Pit) serve the community that results from sharing an interest in Fighting Ignorance–they are where the “fighters” can blow off a little steam. After all, the Pit mostly involves etiquette in the other forums, and IMHO and MPSIMS mostly involve playful or silly thoughts that may interest the other members but don’t necessarily implicate the core mission. But even in those three blow-off-steam forums, there is usually significant informative content, and the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty high. The Board would be a poorer place without them.
I doubt that a sex-and-relationships thread would fit. First, an analogy to computer questions or legal questions is not apt, unless we are talking about factual questions about sex and relationships. But there seems little danger that such factual questions are overrunning the Board. The sex-and-relationships threads that have prompted this thread are more the playful and silly kind. As Primaflora has already said,
Second, a sex-and-relationships forum would probably divide the community. Sure, most members are probably quite interested in sex and relationships, and some would probably participate in the new forum as well as the primary forums. But the new forum could easily attract a different community, interested in little but the “cringemaking flirt and sex boast nonsense,” who couldn’t care less about the other forums or about the Board as a community:
The existing secondary forums are a means to an end–they support the primary forums and the community that has grown around them. A sex-and-relationships forum would not necessarily serve a comparable function. The Pit, for example, makes sense as a pressure-release valve for the members who post in the primary forums; it would not make as much sense to the Board if it contained a significant population who posted only in the Pit and ignored the other forums.
Finally, a sex-and-relationships forum would probably tax the ham[p]sters far out of proportion to its contribution. Most threads in the existing forums are conversations among a wide-ranging group of interested members, who mostly post thoughtful and informative contributions to the conversation, with a few drive-by posters. The signal-to-noise ratio is very high. But several recent sex-and-realtionship threads have seemed more like a limited conversation among a few members, holding a relatively uninformative exchange among themselves, where the signal-to-noise ratio approaches zero. These threads quickly accumulate a freakishly high post count, full of posts that say practically nothing, but which tax the ham[p]sters just the same.
One solution that addresses the resource-allocation issue would be, instead of starting a new forum, simply opening a sex-and-realtionships chat room. The recent sex-and-relationships threads often amount to a few members basically IMing each other anyway. A chat room would let them hold their conversation, but without archiving it for posterity. But as Futile Gesture and Primaflora have already observed, there are already plenty of other venues already available for that purpose.
I should also mention that one reason given previously for adding a forum - no matter the content - is that it would either maintain the status quo regarding the number of posts made on the entire system or lessen that number (since those that would have been made in other fora would perhaps be made - with some forethought - in the new one only, and this forethought might preclude people from beginning them). But that wouldn’t be the case. As has occurred with CS, the overall traffic has increased (I would think).
I you add a forum devoted to flirting / sex / disgusting (aka TMI) posts, the consequence would be that some posters will think that we are soliciting those kind of threads at the message board, which we are not. There are sufficient outlets for those kind of discussions on the internet without the SDMB needing to provide an avenue for it here.
Ah. I mistook you for someone who knew what they were talking about. My mistake. I won’t bore you with links, cites, or other tiresome facts, because they obviously mean nothing to you. But, maybe you should try reading one of the sex threads, before condemning them. Because I read them, and I see people posting their thanks for information and support on a regular basis. Even in the “cringemaking flirtfest” threads.
No, not just because of that. The opinions that form the basis of my argument are right here, in this thread. Haven’t you read them? Or, is it that you don’t see them for what they are because you share them?
Oh, okay. So, I guess you don’t see all the threads I see that have been moved. That’s legitimate. The percentage may be low, overall, but I wouldn’t call it rare. But, if difficulty was not your concern, then what was your concern, when you said…
Because all that talk about complexity and simplicity sure sounds like you think it would make things difficult for people.
That’s a joke, right? Or, several jokes? Because, you surely can’t be seriously suggesting that the folks who run the board are suddenly going to run amok, creating fora willy-nilly. Not that you’d get any argument from me, if they wanted to create legal and computer fora. And, you can’t really be suggesting that people get as upset about the computer questions as they do about the sex threads.
No. You? I’ll say it a third time; I don’t really care whether they create a separate forum, or not. I support it for the reasons I stated. That’s not the same as caring.
What annoys me is all the specious and disingenuous arguments being presented, here. People are against the idea? Fine. They should just say so, not attempt to wrap their opinion in the Flag Of SDMB. Claims of preserving the purity of the board are just crap. Half of what’s posted, now, is fluff and opinion. If you want purity, you should be clamoring for an end to all posting of nonfactual information.
I’ll be damned! We agree on something! No, the wish is not intolerant. Bitching that people should stop posting what you consider TMI is. And, TMI is, after all, factual.
You really should quit the combative attitude. Look at the forum. If you want to behave childishly, there are other fora where that’s permitted.
I’d like to see some of these “tiresome” facts, though. (I don’t know how they could be tiresome if they’ve never been brought up.)
You probably also should stop presuming to know what threads I’ve visited. Come to think of it, if you can’t comport yourself like an adult in this discussion, maybe you should go elsewhere.
Maybe you don’t know what fighting ignorance means. It’s not the same as finding out who likes sexual souvenirs or who spits or swallows. It’s one thing to enlighten people with factual statements that may dispel sexual myths; it’s another to poll people to see who can be the most salacious.
I’m merely quoting you. As others have said, no one is calling for the “banning” of these threads, as you mentioned. People who don’t want to see them aren’t intolerant or ignorant, as you seem to imply - they just don’t like them. Such threads, in their opinion - again, note this forum - are inappropriate for this message board.
Maybe you don’t know how many threads are posted here in a day, but if more than a tiny handful are moved, I’d be very much surprised. Maybe one of the admins can volunteer that info. I think it more likely that in your mind a lot of threads are being moved (not the same as banned, one would think) because it’s a higher percentage of those threads you visit, rather than a higher percentage of all threads on the message board at any time.
You missed the point. No one claims that will happen. In fact, most of the current fora were created when the message board was begun; Cafe Society was begun only after long deliberation (if an admin wants to correct me, please do). I am not suggesting people will go “willy-nilly” creating fora. I am suggesting, however, that creating one for a specific subject will open the floor for others to be created, and that does go against the grain of what’s occurred on here so far.
You support it, but you don’t care? That’s a contradiction. One cannot possibly support something one doesn’t care about. You’re employing a logical fallacy.
I’ll want a cite for that “half of what’s posted, now, is fluff and opinion.” Unless, of course, that’s opinion, in which case… never mind.
I’m sorry to see you think preserving the purity of the board is “crap.” Why are you here?
It’s a shame the issue is so black and white to you. If it’s not factual, it’s fluff? Hmm. And yet you want (sorry, support but don’t care) a forum that would be more fluffy than factual. Interesting.
You must have missed the point a few of us have made about how much of this board is either a) entirely factual or b) fluff with factual roots (i.e., informative but also anectdotal, which can also be informative).
Primaflora’s right; you’re awfully defensive, especially for someone who doesn’t care.
Just out of curiosity, can anyone point me to where anyone at all has called for the banning of flirting/sex threads?
I know that Tuba has asked for the sex threads to be toned down in nature but I don’t think anyone has asked for the outright banning of them or of flirting. I’ve seen requests for flirting not to spread all over the board but that’s far short of banning.
I saw the title of this thread and knewDavebear would put in an appearance.
Personally, I think it’s a good idea - I see a lot of sex threads, a lot of relationship-oriented threads, ranging from the serious to the trivial. Maybe human interaction actually IS a topic big enough for it’s own forum? I don’t see how it can’t be.
Wow, you’re funny, dantheman. Can I quote you on that “can’t support what you don’t care about” shtick? You couldn’t make a valid argument for the right to free air, but I do owe you an apology. Rampant hypocrisy, especially when disguised as logic, really ticks me off, but I shouldn’t have taken that out on you, and I’m sorry. I don’t know you, and you’re probably a nice enough guy, when you’re not in flag-waving mode.
I’ve already said all I have to say on this. If people choose to misinterpret it, that’s their prerogative. As far as I’m concerned, this discussion ended when the first Admin chimed in with a negative vote.
I was looking forward to posting on this thread, until I read through the whole thing and felt a little out of my depth.
It seemed a simple question at first, but obviously there is more to it than I thought. (me being new with lots to learn and all)
There seems a place to discuss issues pertaining to sex and relationships. Why does it have to lead to flirting etc?
I will assume that these threads regarding sex etc. mostly lead to flirting etc. and that is why it is frowned apon.
But I would be quite happy to discuss sex and relationships and would not feel the need to take it any further. Let’s face it sex is a big issue in life.
Am i being naive??
I’d advise you to knock off the insulting and come back when you can discuss the issue like an adult. They sort of frown upon posts like the last few you’ve made. Just FYI.
I’m not waving any flag, by the way. You’re simply blinded by actual disagreement to your viewpoint.
We didn’t have a problem with sex threads a few months ago when the war was on, or when 9/11 was the main talking point of the boards, etc.
Every spring we have this. We do not need a separate section just for flirting, becasue it would only encourage it beyond what is reasonable on these boards. There are plenty of other boards where you will find are more open to the idea.
We only need one Spit or Swallow thread (to use an example) every year or so to cater for the discussion. To have a forum devoted to the persuit of such ideas would result in the same thing being discussed over and over again, tying up board resources beyond what it deserves.
MPSIMS more than adequately provides an area for flirting, IMHOP for the polls, GD for the debates. A separate forum for relationships/sex/TMI wouldn’t add anything productive to the boards. Cafe Society does, becasue you find people who will intellegently discuss the relative merits and flaws of arts and literature. It justifies its existence. A sex forum wouldn’t, IMO.
Ok, I think everyone should just back the fuck off my man Dave here, he has a right to his opinion just like everybody else.
**I’d just like to say this. I think the SDMB has grown beyond it’s original charter. This is no longer a message board about fighting ignorance.
It’s a community. **
There are old people and young people. Long-timers and newbies. People of all persuasions. Some of us are dearest friends. Others may come here every day and not know one another. We talk about pretty much all aspects of human life. We are friends and neighbors, just as if we all lived in the same small town.
I contend that less than half the threads here actually fight any sort of ignorance.
Some members of this community like to indulge in a perfectly normal part of the human existence, sexuality. They don’t want to have to go elsewhere to do it, they want to do it here, with their friends, with their “in” crowd, where they know that true weirdos won’t be tolerated and rules of propriety will be observed. We all know the limits here, and although we all enjoy occasionally brushing up against them, none of us are particularly interested in overstepping them.
Those of us that post in these threads are aware that at times they can be distracting to more serious work, and that there is the possibility that someone who’s a little too young might be reading this stuff. So we ride a fine line.
I think I speak for this crowd when I say we’d like to have a way to express ourselves and explore this part of our life without having to leave our dear little community here. I would further suggest that such a forum could have restricted access, prehaps requiring some sort of pledge that you are over 18, thereby relaxing somewhat the fear of under-age posters.
The management is effectively telling us that if we want to talk about these subjects, we need to “take it out of town”. That is their right, as they provide this service free of charge and according to their rules. But, being the logical, ignorance-fighting folks that they are, I would think that they could see how their request bothers us.
We don’t wanna have to leave town just to talk about sex, and we don’t wanna talk that way around folks that aren’t interested in hearing it. We’d like our own place here in town.
Actually, I do get your point, but I don’t agree with it. Yes, it’s sometimes difficult to know if a question goes in GQ, IMHO, or GD. Maybe, even, CS. But, this one would be the simplest of all; if it’s about sex or relationships, it goes in the new forum. Nothing tricky about it. I suppose we could complicate it one step further, and say it goes in the new forum, unless it’s a legal question.