Yes indeed, you certainly said “most blacks.” Very charming. I don’t suppose you could be bothered to back up that assertion with some reliable polling data that >50% of black Americans feel that racism is only racism if it’s white folks dissing black folks? Thanks very much for your prompt attention to this matter.
You still have yet to show that Shaq’s behavior is comparable to what most blacks consider racism. Mocking black people by makiing monkey sounds is definitely racist. Mocking how someone actually speaks is not.
Now if Yao Ming actually didn’t speak Chinese and spoke English with no accent, then maybe you could say Shaq is being racist, because he would be ascribing things to Yao based on race/ethnicity rather than culture. But Ming does speak Chinese and he does have a Chinese accent. If Shaq is being racist for mocking Ming, so is everyone else who has exaggerated the way a foreigner talks just for laughs. Shows like Saturday Night Live would be forced off the air if they couldn’t take jabs at accents, dialects, and languages. So where do you draw the line?
It seems like people are obsessed with naming any and everything racist except the things that A) actually are racist and B) are truly pertinent. Things like policies that perpetuate the economic and health disparities between racial minorities and the majority; environmental racism that puts a disproportionate number of minorities (regardless of income) in harms way of toxin exposure; racial profiling and institutional racism; and last but not least, racism among law enforcers, servants of the judicial system, and elected members of congress. These are the things that really matter. Not Shaq being stupid in an interview.
All of these “Is such-and-such racist?” threads get under my skin because they cause issues of real importance to depreciate in perceived value. And yeah, I know could stop reading them at any time. Most of the time I don’t bother reading them at all.
minty green, indeed someone should do such a survey. I can tell you that I specifically recall that 85% of african americans were pro-racial profiling of arabs after 9/11. That’s the closest statistic I know of, but were someone to poll african americans and ask whether Shaq’s comments were “racist,” I guarantee you well over 50% of african americans would say no.
Well, come up with a cite for that 85% number.
As for the last half of that, unless it’s wildly different for every other ethnic group, it proves nothing.
[quote]
Beeblebrox
I do NOT like what you are insinuating. Read my post again.
[quote]
No insinuation was intended, Beeble, I was adressing your distinction between cultural and racial prejudice. I did not infer anything more sinister from your post, and I sincerely didn’t mean to imply anything about your personal feelings.Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Well, I think the “monkey sounds” analogy was not 100% correct, and was rather poorly chosen. A better analogy would be if someone made mock African language sounds like “Ungawa hooma unga ooga” and pantomimed spear-throwing motions or something like that. Imagine if anyone had done that to mock Shaq - he would be outraged. See, there’s a difference between mocking how someone speaks, and mocking a stereotypical charicature of how that persons race supposedly speaks. Making “ching-chong” noises to make fun of Asians is not only incredibly immature, it’s also racist, in the same way that making “ooga booga” noises is racist to blacks.
I have to think that the line should be drawn WAY ABOVE what Shaq did.
go take your own poll over at bet.com
I’d be willing to bet (no pun) that upwards of 90% of the posters are black.
try this one:
report back w/your results — maybe start a new thread.
The key word you’re missing is “reliable.” Self-selected polls are useless.
of course — I never could have guessed that you’d be ducking that one.
don’t suppose there’s any chance that you’re afraid of what you might find…?
I guess you’ll be holding out for the census of every black person in the country to resolve this.
yoyoyo
[QUOTE]
of course — I never could have guessed that you’d be ducking that one.
don’t suppose there’s any chance that you’re afraid of what you might find…?[\QUOTE]
Uh, no. If you can’t see why polling BET.com won’t really tell you what “most black people” think about anything, then maybe you’re not fit to debate about race.
“…to debate about race.”
and what would that debate be?
‘is shaq racist?’
LOL @ “guarantee 50% would say no.” That’s like me guaranteeing that 50% of Caucasian people in America think exactly like you do about “African Americans.” Assuming that everyone of the same amount of melanin in their skin think alike is just as dumb as Shaq’s comments.
Speaking of Shaq’s comments I toss them with the same book that contains Jesse Venturas comments about the Irish. Stupid comment, but no as stupid as proclaming you wish segregation still exist.
That still is a poor analogy. Shaq does not speak “African”; therefore mocking his supposed “African” language would be wrong because he doesn’t even speak that tongue. So yeah, he’d have just cause to be mad.
A more apt analogy would be if Shaq was a speaker of Ebonics and someone decided to mock his speech by saying “He be walkin’ round da court like he bees somebody.” To me this is analogous to what Shaq did to Ming, and it doesn’t seem racist to me. Now if Shaq did not speak Ebonics and sounded much like any regular dude in the midwest, imitating him in the same way would probably be racist, because it’s attributing behaviors and traits to him based solely on his race.
I don’t think we have any evidence that he was mocking Ming’s race. He was clearly mocking his culture, but it doesn’t appear to me that he was necessarily attributing traits to him based on his race. Would he have done the same thing to Connie Chung, who is very American-sounding? We don’t know. The distinction I trying to make may not mean anything in terms of degrees of offensiveness, but I believe in calling a duck a duck and not a chicken. It all boils down to semantics.
So let me reiterate this: I don’t think Shaq’s comment was in any way funny or harmless; it was mean and stupid and insensitive. But the implication that this represents proof of double-standard in US race relations is rather weak (I’m not saying you’re doing this belowjob). There’s gotta be something better than this, guys.
Are you under the impression that “ching-chong-yang-wah-ah-soh” is some sort of Chinese dialect?
Let me walk you through my reasoning, because it looks as if I’m being misunderstood or something.
Mean people who are not familar with the nuances of the spanish language will imitate spanish speakers by ending all their words with “O”. As in “Drive-o your automobile-o to the store-o and get-o me a burrito, ci amigo?” They think they are being clever and funny doing this. Which is why they do this. They are not really trying to communicate anything more than “look at me, pretending to speak spanish, aren’t I a riot?”.
Mean people who are not familiar with the nuances of chinese will imiate chinese speakers by using the sounds “ching” and “chong” and often throwi in a bunch of chinese food names. As in “ching chong egg fu yung soy sauce chow wonton ching chong ching.” They think they are being clever and funny doing this. Which is why they do this. They are not really trying to communicate anything more than “look at me, pretending to speak chinese, aren’t I a riot?”.
Mean people who are not familiar with the nuances of ebonics will imitate ebonic speakers by using the word “be”, “ain’t”, and “sho” overabundantly. As in “Ain’t it sho be hard to be gettin my point across t’day, ain’t it yo?” They think they are being clever and funny doing this. Which is why they do this. They are not really trying to communicate anything more than “look at me, pretending to speak ebonics, aren’t I a riot?”.
Understand my POV now?
hey, all you nitwits.
sorry if I don’t remember all your names — maybe it’s just one nitwit.
about these posts I keep seeing frantically trying to distinguish stereotyping and belittling someone’s CULTURE as opposed to their RACE ---- could you explain yourselves?
because I have no idea what freakin’ difference it makes, yo.
yoyoyo
Sorry, I think the distinction you are attempting to make is trivial at best.
I think that this hits the nail on the head. Without commenting on the specific examples that you listed, it’s clear that there there isn’t a shortage of real racism in the world. Surely that should be the target of any spare righteous anger, rather than picking over some relatively innocuous comments made by a celebrity.
The threads title is “Shaq a racist?” So we are debating whether or not Shaq’s comment was racist. Not whether or not it was offensive and inappropriate. Not whether or not he should be thrown out of the NBA for it.
Please read where I wrote this:
So regardless of if he was being certifiably racist or not, it doesn’t matter. Offensiveness is offensiveness.
Based on what Shaq said I can not conclude that he is being racist. Culturally insensitive and assholish, yes. But racist, no. Like I said earlier, it all boils down to semantics. However, (for the upteenth time) just because I don’t think his comment was racist, does not mean I excuse it.
Is it really that hard to understand?
[Moderator Hat: ON]
superfreakicus said:
If there is one nitwit here, it isn’t the people you are talking to, but the person who is so obviously breaking the rules by insulting people in Great Debates.
Stop it. Now.
David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator
[Moderator Hat: OFF]