you can’t insult people here??
what kind of message board IS this??
I understand. I just don’t see the importance of such semantic nitpicks.
I think there is an importance to the distinction. Being labelled a racist is a pretty serious charge, one that I would certainly not want attached to my name and splashed over a bunch of papers.
The next time this board is beseiged by an ardent race debate and the word “racist” is bandied back and forth willynilly-like, and truly ignorant folks start comparing Irish jokes with nigger jokes and start whining that black folks take offense at such things but not Irish, and I and others have to take a deep breath and explain (yet again) why the two things are apples & oranges, then maybe you’ll see why I find such “semantic nitpicks” sort of important.
In this discussion it may not seem important, because defining the charge as culturally insensitive vs racist, doesn’t change how offensive it is (i.e. offensiveness is independent of the labels we attach to things). But for the sake of clarity and communication, we shouldn’t confuse the things. Some people want those things to be confused, so that intelligent discussions about racism can degenerate into whine-fests about the stoicism of some groups and the “hypersensitivities” of other groups.
Sorry if I sound a little snotty.
I wouldn’t want that attached to my name either. Of course I also wouldn’t go prattling on like a dipshit making fun of languages I don’t speak while there’s a microphone in my face either. Maybe calling Shaq a racist is a little strong, but if he’s too dense to see that his comments are going to offend people, then it’s hard to feel sorry for him.
first…
“…and truly ignorant folks start comparing Irish jokes with nigger jokes and start whining that black folks take offense at such things but not Irish, and I and others have to take a deep breath and explain (yet again) why the two things are apples & oranges,…”
and then…
“In this discussion it may not seem important, because defining the charge as culturally insensitive vs racist, doesn’t change how offensive it is…”
nice job.
by the way…
there is no doubt in my mind that shaq belittles yao’s CULTURE because he is of another RACE.
I certainly can’t read his mind, but this whole thread is largely opinion, anyway.
I wonder what Shaq’s reaction would be if Yao Ming answered his comment by saying,
“Whas up my niggah? Why you be saying dat shit?”
and apparently, you must share the same distinction, by flaunting this rule, yourself.
there’s a ‘nature of hypocrisy’ thread around here you might want to weigh in on.
Care to elaborate on whatever point you’re trying to make instead of trotting out snide one-liners? Or is that too much to ask for a participant in a Great Debate?
Why? Black people (African Americans, if you will) mock African immigrants all the time, in ways similar to what Shaq did. See the movies “Barbershop” and “Coming to America” for insight into the phenomenon. Beeblebrox provided anecdotal evidence of the same thing, which nobody in this thread really addressed. Whites also diss members of their own race when they scoff at certain white ethnic groups. I’m sure Asians do it among themselves as well.
Are blacks that mock Africans with “Umba jomba kayageela” and a barrage of clicking sounds in imitation of certain African speech patterns being racist? Or are you only calling this particular Shaq instance racist because the two men involved are of different races? If so, what’s your reasoning?
So far in this thread hardly anyone has put forth any evidence to support their opinion except for the “if this had been a white man saying this, he would have been charged with racism” argument. I’m really interested in seeing some synthesis of ideas on this particular topic.
You,= with the face, agreed.
Besides “Tell Yao Ming ching chong ah wah ya so…” was all he said? In that case,he was more making fun of his name than his culture or anything else. Why are people ptting this in the same boat as the John Rocker comments?
It’s evident to me that Shaq does not have a disdain or dislike of Asian people unlike Rocker or someone who is truly racist. He was more making fun of his name aka his Chinese sounding name. It’d be like someone mispronoucing Hakeem Oldujuwans name on purpose,or making fun of the various "Laqueshia/Sheeniqua/Quatana psuedo African names African American women tend to hand.
Now if Shaq clled him a yellow monkey and/or told him the Civic Center dosen’t serve Egg Rolls and Shrimp Fried Rice, THEN we can talk a little more about being racist.
“and/or told him the Civic Center dosen’t serve Egg Rolls and Shrimp Fried Rice, THEN we can talk a little more about being racist.”
so, how is THAT ‘racist’??
I think there’s something worthwhile in your distinction, but it seems like you’re overestimating how important it is. People who hate people with different skin color simply because of that are racists. Sure. But people who think to themselves “I’m not racist, I just don’t like those shiftless blacks [or] I just don’t like those cackling chinese” are racists, too. Assuming that all members of a group conform to stereotypes of that group is racism, even if it’s done without malice.
–Cliffy
Just as an aside question…Shaq made those comments on Sept 4th 2002…well over two months ago…yet i was listening to ESPN on the radio today and they reran the interview. What has caused this issue to spring up again almost 2.5 months later?
check that 4 months ago
“Care to elaborate on whatever point you’re trying to make instead of trotting out snide one-liners? Or is that too much to ask for a participant in a Great Debate?”
snide one liners usually save me a lot of arduous 2 finger typing, and I’ve got the shield waiting for me on tape.
my point, as acknowledged in your own post, is that defending shaq on the basis that the chinese are not a race is pointless semantic nitpicking.
you can choose to dwell on the op’s vocab and grammar if you want, but I thought a ‘great debate’ should involve the issue he raised.
race is largely an amorphous social construct, anyway — unless I have to prove that shaq is bigoted against the human race.
had he called yao a ‘rice eating chink’, I’m sure you’d be the only one in the country denying his racism.
fyi, ‘african american’ isn’t a race, either, but that doesn’t stop fozzy zoeller(??) from being labeled a racist for some similar comment.
what’s the difference?
would fozzy have gotten off the hook if he had mocked tiger w/some joke ebonics instead of making the collard green comments?
personally, I’m sure shaq’s been talkin’ that smack his whole life, and you’d hear that, and worse, in every locker room across the country, every day.
usually, it’s just the locker room participants and country club members who have to determine what’s a good natured joke and what’s racism, but when the mike’s hot, you’d better watch your mouth.
the op asked if shaq is racist.
I believe, yes.
when you’re black, you get a free pass.
here I come, shield!!!
the episode that 'everyone will be talking about, tomorrow!!!"
Actually, that’s almost a dead-on impression of the way some of the guys who lived in my dorm spoke like. All of them were white, too. White stoner surfing types.
That’s all for this hijack, but tune in next week…
I wasn’t defending him in the sense of pardoning his behavior, though. People were labeling him a racist because of the “ching chong” comment and I just don’t under the basis for such a thing. Unless you believe anyone who makes derisive fun of cultural differences is a racist, regardless of if race is involved or not, then I guess you can call the man a racist. But it causes the word to lose meaningfulness if is applied to any and everything that is insensitive. It basically makes it us all racists.
I have a really hard time believing that you’d call someone racist if he, as Sagasumono pointed out, deliberately screwed up the pronounciation of names like Oldujuwan or Bonquisha. People frequently refer to whites of a certain socioeconomic background as rednecks (or poor white trash, which is admittedly cringe-worthy) . Are they racist, too? Blacks often make fun of other black people who are “ghetto”. Are they racist?
The issue is racism. What do you think it is?
Where in the world did you come up that? “Rice eating chink” is racially offensive and not on par with mocking somebody’s language. Just like making fun of Bonquishia’s name is not the same thing as calling her a porch-monkey welfare queen. Are you confused about that or do you think that it doesn’t matter?
My argument was never that chinese isn’t race. I’ve just maintained that Shaq was mocking the chinese language. And in an earlier post I stipulated when I believe such an action is definitely racist and when it is not necessarily racist. If Ming did not speak chinese or have a heavy accent, then mocking him in that way would have had definite racial overtones, which would point to racism and not cultural insensitivity. But because Ming is a chinese speaker (with ESL) and has a heavy accent, the race card can not be trotted out just because it “looks” racist. Doing so is usually considered hypersensitive by the anti-PC crowd. Are you advocating hypersensitivity?
Does Tiger speak “ebonically”? If not, mocking him in that way would be racially driven. If yes, then mocking him in that way should just be considered assholish and culturally insensitive.
Personally, I think you are more concerned about people “getting off the hook” than actually fighting racism.