I couldn’t agree more. I just don’t like it that this firm isn’t being up-front about what they’re doing. As I said, it’s weasely lawyer bullshit.
The weasely system is the firm saying that they don’t require vaccination, but making it impossible to reserve a desk without proof of vaccination, but making that appear to be just a glitch in the system or something.
About 20 years ago, I wanted to hire a bright young grad student when he graduated. He was a foreign citizen, still in the process of getting his green card. So I called HR and asked if there was any way to hire him. I was told that there was no legal or regulatory reason the company couldn’t hire a foreign citizen, so the official position was that foreign citizens could be hired.
This made me very happy, but then a thought occurred to me. I called Security and asked about what would be involved in hiring a foreign citizen. I was told that he would not be able to access the company intranet, or be issued a company laptop or phone. In addition, where he was allowed in company buildings would be restricted to public areas unless he was escorted. I thought for a moment and said- “So, what you are telling me is that I can hire him, but he can’t work here?”. “Yes” was the answer.
Legally, we did not have a policy that we would not hire foreign citizens. But practically speaking, our policies precluded it.
Our latest corporate communications on returning to work use the phrase “while not currently required, we urge all employees to be vaccinated as soon as possible” Note the wording “not currently required”. I think our lawyers have probably determined that when push comes to shove, we can force the issue if we have to.
One problem with mandating vaccinations is that it opens the employer up to liability if there is some interaction with or allergic reaction to the vaccine. So I think people are only recommending the vaccines now.
Does it?
IANALawyer, but mandating vaccinations seem to introduce liability. This NPR story mentions the possibility of liability.
They call it “a legal minefield,” but all they’ve got is a question with no answer.
Maybe it does introduce liability – I don’t know – but I haven’t seen even a theory of how that would work. I mean, when employers require you to have a valid driver’s license, are they liable if you get in an accident while you are renewing it? So far, I’m not seeing it.
Sounds like Singapore a couple decades back. It didn’t outlaw beards and moustaches on men but everyone had to carry a government ID card, you couldn’t have facial hair in your card’s picture, and you had to match the card.
Is employment is at-will, as it is in my state, can’t the employer make the argument that the employee chose to be vaccinated? It’s not like they are required to work there.
Here’s a covidiot:
Woman goes to school grounds without a mask. Tells children there that Covid is fake and you don’t need a mask. When asked to leave by staff, woman spits in their face.
Police have publicly posted a clear picture of her, and are asking the public for help identifying her so they can follow up on potential charges of assault.
We visited our son at college several weekends in a row. One weekend, we went to lunch at a small convenience store / restaurant a bit south of his town. Now, his school is in the middle of a part of the state where only Loyal True Americans live (i.e., loads of Trump supporters; we drove by a seriously GINORMOUS Conferedate flag at one point) - so I should not have been surprised that half the customers we saw coming into the store were maskless. We’d already been vaccinated, and our son got his first one right about then, so we all appear to have survived it.
We were at a funeral this weekend, and while pretty much everyone at the service was wearing a mask, when we went to the family home afterward, the masks came off immediately. Hopefully everyone there was vaccinated (we had been, of course). I’ll feel better if we make it another 10 days w/o symptoms though.
Oh, and we are continuing to wear masks when out in public. The CDC guidance that “you don’t need to if you’re fully vaccinated” makes sense from a purely medical standpoint, but is utterly foolish from a political standpoint. You know maskholes are going to claim they are vaccinated so they can get away with going w/o the the mask. It’s a matter of trust - and I don’t have a great deal of that left.
We go to the mall today for the first time in what must’ve been years to get a new phone. In line in front of us at the Apple store is an older unmasked man, being checked in by a woman who appears oblivious, while two security guards stand nearby.
There are signs on the outside doors of the mall and in front of the Apple Store saying you must wear a mask.
He gets inside and sits at a table until one of the geniuses inside finally notices that he is unmasked, and comes out to talk to the woman who checked him in. She expostulates that she did not even notice, but the woman who came out and got her makes her go into the store and deal with him.
After much back-and-forth he agrees to leave the store if they will bring out a chair because he has a bad back and serve him outside the store, still unmasked. And so they do.
I have a fair amount of sympathy for the people who have to deal with this day in and day out, but fuck this guy, and to a lesser extent, fuck the store.
IIRC you’re in Germany.
Right about now in the USA the overall situation with masks in large venues is about like it was with our 1970s experiment with the 55mph speed limit on interstate highways. The public Simply Won’t Comply. Except for the few folks who really want the restrictions for their own reasons good or bad.
Is that responding to me? No, I talk a lot about Germany (you might be recalling me trying to get a cell phone set up for my son, who is over there), and in fact plan to travel there in about a month, but I’m right here in the good old USA.
I completely agree with your diagnosis of some people just not caring about complying.
Same here. My general approach in stores is that if the employees are still wearing masks, I’ll wear one too. I did have an employee at a local restaurant (where masks are no longer required for employees or customers) ask me if I wanted her to wear a mask when she delivered my food to my vehicle; I’m not sure if that’s the official policy of the business, or just her personal preference.
I’m not sure what I’ll do when I go back into the office next week…specifically, I’m not sure how the official face covering policy will change. I’ll probably still wear a mask when I go into the warehouse, mainly because (as I’ve ranted about elsewhere) some people in that area have gotten into the habit of not covering their faces at all when sneezing or coughing.
This is something I’m concerned about.
My father’s funeral is sure to happen this summer (I’ll miss him, but he’s had an unusually long, lucky and good life, so there really isn’t a tragic component to this).
One of my siblings is a Trumpist, an anti-vaxxer, a gun nut, and a believer in all kinds of crap.
I’ll be the one handling all the arrangements for the wake and for the funeral. I’d like everyone to wear a mask for the indoor stuff. Especially the wake, since that’s a smaller room than the church where the funeral Mass will be held.
I don’t want to turn this into a thing. I’m even going to let it slide if he carries a gun to the wake (although I draw the line at the Mass - guns in church is, to me, and to Father [whoever], the pastor at the church where the Mass will be celebrated, blasphemy). But he’ll turn it into a thing. I know he will (having known him for fifty-plus years).
What to do? Let it go? Pretty sure everyone (except him) will be vaccinated. Insist, and make a scene at the wake?
No fucking idea. This isn’t going to be fun.
Since the CDC says that vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks, what happens if you make the rule: “vaccinate or mask up, your choice”?
Took my cat the the vet, who has a socially distanced waiting room with signs on top of some of seats that ask the reader to not sit there to encourage such.
A couple comes in with two dogs, and totally ignore the signs and sit, of course, right next to me. They then notice the signs and read one, and the guy shrugs his shoulders.
I immediately get up and move to the other side of the waiting room where there is PLENTY of seating.
I mean the counter where the reception is has plexiglass all over the place. What does this couple think the vet is doing here?
Why not do both.
Trump supporters ruin everything.
I said “pretty sure” everyone will be vaccinated. Except for him, of course, because I already know that he won’t be. And there may be people there who have a good reason to pass on or delay vaccination. I don’t know.
I do want to make the rule “vaccinate or mask up.” But the thing with Trumpists is that they’re always looking for a fight. Like those idiots on planes who won’t wear masks. Seriously – do they think they’re going to win that argument? Of course they don’t. Or those people who insist on openly carrying a gun in the mall in those states that permit that. They really, really hope someone will say something about it.
So do I insist on a rule at my father’s wake? And his funeral? I’ll let the gun go at the wake, but do I let it go at the funeral?
Those few surviving contemporaries of my father who can make it to the wake/funeral may be vaccinated, but they’re still high risk. So really, I should insist that my brother wear a mask and/or get vaccinated. And I know he won’t.
So I have to bar my own brother from his father’s wake and funeral. That sucks. I know it’s his doing, but it still sucks.