Sherlock series 2, U.S. airing [open spoilers]

I have to agree. I enjoy going through the process, I enjoy the interpretation of Holmes and the interactions, I like the way they throw bits of things on the screen to clue us to things Holmes is observing. I struggle with the dialogue occassionally, between accents and my own hearing and the rapidfire delivery, I’m running on captioning to keep up. But when it is all said and done, I keep finding plot elements that make me go “Wait, what?”

Part of it was showing off to Holmes, to show what Moriarty has accomplished. He really wants to impress Holmes, to show his own genius is up to snuff, as it were. So he’s okay giving away some of his successes in order to impress his “nemesis”, so he can end up besting the genius. I think he is relying that not too many people will actually learn that he revealed his own cases. Would Watson blog that? More importantly, he seemed like he intended to actually kill Holmes in that confrontation, and was only stopped by the phone call (presumably that was Irene?)

At the time he was trying to distract Holmes from the real point, the spy’s stolen information. The whole “5 pips” plot and the series of tasks was designed to show off to Holmes and at the same time keep him too busy to interfere with the other story. Which means he was kinda pulling the thing together relatively on the fly, unless he had stored up a plot against Holmes just on the contingency he needed a delaying factor?

So at the time he killed the old woman, he was trying to keep his actual identity a secret, he still had another round to go in the delay cycle. Notice he didn’t send the final “1 pip” challenge? And what was Holmes’ response? He realized the point was to stall him, so he sent the message to Moriarty that he had the data, and thus set up the meet.

So you see, the plan changed. At the time of the murder, Moriarty wasn’t planning on meeting Sherlock. He was revealing his role, but subtlely, showing off but not giving himself away. That only came about once Sherlock offered the data exchange. Thus the necessity for the safety with Watson, the bomb, and the snipers.

In general, I enjoyed it. I caught the reference to the flashing lights on the moor, and the hound, and of course “Baskerville”. I liked the interplay, and some of the lines, like Holmes’ “I don’t have friends. Just the one.”

I spotted Watson snag the receipt but didn’t understand why until the later explanation about the store being vegan. It appeared to me that the bright light flashes was part of the stimulus package. We saw them at the victim’s house when he was hallucinating, we saw it in the lab when Holmes spawned Watson’s hallucination, and we saw some sort of flash in the woods when Holmes and the victim were first there, and Watson was off by himself. I didn’t see where the lights were coming from in that last element.

I didn’t quite get at the end when the bad guy ran out into the minefield, he stepped on the mine, realized it, and then just gave up and removed his foot, detonating the mine. :confused:

Also, has anyone tried to come to a dead stop from a run before? That seemes highly unlikely that he could realize he tripped the mine when his foot hit and stop his forward momentum before releasing the trigger. That’s an almost certain boom just about the instant you realize what you’ve done, before your reaction time can even kick in. It would be one thing if he had been at a walk, but he was trying to run at that point, or at least shuffle fairly fast.

But that is straight out of the original inspiration, Doyle’s The Hound of the Baskervilles. The fun in that case was not that there was an element of supernatural, but that they did actually present a rational conclusion and explanation despite the seeming supernatural of it.

I wish Hollywood would do that more often, instead of leaving a trace of “or was it” at the end.

Double Foolscap, I actually thought that was more creative than just flipping over the keyboard and finding the password written on the bottom, or whatever. It was a clever understanding of the psychology of the man, and didn’t go for the obvious “pet’s name” or “birth date” that is often used in stories.

You see the principle, salient feature of the boomarang is that it “arangs” :wink: Boomarangs are noted for one thing - they return to the thrower.

But here is my complaint about the boomerang storyline - there are two kinds of boomerangs: returning boomerangs, and non-returning boomerangs. The returning kind are smaller, and are not really used for taking game. For that, the larger non-returning kind are used (i.e. throwing sticks), so that they fly straight and have the weight to actually do something.

I know about this, so it is likely that there are several other people who do. It is even on wikipedia.

So to me, the genius Sherlock Holmes should also be well aware of this. Therefore, the boomerang that actually returns hitting him in the head and breaking his skull and killing him is unlikely. So the big genius solution to the problem relies on knowing about boomerangs and their propensity to return, but not knowing that the ones that return are generally small and lightweight.

Finally saw it - definitely the weakest ep. Getting from:

Hound to H.O.U.N.D

And watching him go through his memory palace in a *deus ex machina *sort of way just didn’t do it for me. (ETA: I have no problem with memory-retention skills such as using a “memory palace” - that is cool stuff and fits with something Sherlock would press into service - it just felt a bit contrived here…)

Still enjoy the show; everyone’s entitled to a not-great ep.
Seems like Watson does okay on the dating front - he’s hooked up a few times, and would’ve with the physician here if that one fellow didn’t barge in and blow Watson’s patter…

Uh — I missed something. What was the point of the morse coded flashes that Watson spotted?

I know in the original they were signals to the innkeeper from his brother(?) who was the escaped prisoner.

There was no point to the flashes; John just read them as Morse Code. He’d found the local Lovers’ Lane; the flashes were car headlights turned off & on by the exertions of couples dogging. (A UK slang term I just learned, which is in keeping with this episode’s canine theme.)

As in the original, when the escaped prisoner story was just a distraction from The Hound…

OK I’ve just started watching this contemporary version Sherlock Holmes. Great cast. but it’s the modern take on the Conan Doyle episode where he killed off the detective. In the books Doyle explains that Holmes survived the fall off the cliff by grabbing a branch or something. How in the world do they explain his survival in this contemporary episode tonight? Is it sci fi or fantasy now? What can explain his survival from that fall off that building?

I’m going with body was switched by the Baker St. Irregulars.

It’s not explained in the episode, we’ll have to wait until the next season for the reveal, but I’ve read various takes on it, & I think it somehow involves the following:

Earlier in the episode the kidnapped kids thought Moriarty (or whomever did the kidnapping) looked like Sherlock, which alludes to some kind of mask. Sherlock asked an unknown favor of Molly the pathologist. John did not see the actual impact onto the pavement, just the aftermath, and in the background as the body fell was a truck with some kind of bags in the back. Presumably there was some kind of switch as Sherlock fell, maybe another body (borrowed from the coroner and wearing a mask?) was thrown from a lower floor as Sherlock landed in the truck?

Actually, in the ACD stories Holmes simply threw Moriarty off and climbed up out of the way. He was a better rock climber than Watson thought possible. (He was nearly actually killed by Moran[? or some other henchman] who had watched the whole thing from even higher).

Haven’t seen the episode in question yet. Not really bothered by the semi-spoiler, since with a Holmes story you know it’s coming sooner or later. (And I’ve already had

Moriarty’s actions

spoiled elsewhere for me).

Mod Comment: I’ve edited the thread title, because there are a few other threads on the series in general, and this relates to the specific episode.

F’rinstance: Sherlock series 2, U.S. airing [open spoilers] - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board
And a specific earlier thread on this episode when it aired in the UK: Sherlock S2, E3 'The Reichenbach Fall' [UK schedule - SPOILERS APLENTY] - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board

He clearly set up things with Molly. It was never shown what she was doing to help him, and it’s not likely they’d leave a loose end like that.

Since we’ve been discussing each episode as it airs in the US, I’ve merged this into the existing thread. As Dex points out, there’s additional discussion in the UK thread.

I was trying to figure out how Sherlock gets out of this and, thanks to PBS having the episode available for viewing on their website I was able to repeat the flying leap a couple times.

What I think happened is that Sherlock, knowing he needed to stage his own death, enlisted the help of Molly to procure a corpse that roughly met his description and planted it ahead of time in a location where the sight-lines weren’t direct, but almost good enough to see everything. This was either a direct plant or, as noted, someone (Molly?) throwing the body out the window. Or something. Molly would also be the one to identify said corpse as Sherlock latter on. Said location also had what I believe were piles of trash to provide a soft landing, perhaps with extra padding because, you know, Sherlock is not an idiot.

Hence it was vital that John be in the proper position for viewing. He had to be in the right spot with the right sightlines to see Sherlock fall/leap from the roof and the body afterwards, but not directly see the actual impact. Wouldn’t surprise me if the bicyclist knocking him down was also part of the scheme, too, to further confuse the issue.

The end result is that John Watson is absolutely certain that he saw Sherlock Holmes fall to his death. That he actually witnessed the moment of death. Which he didn’t. He saw Sherlock falling, then he saw a bloody body. John Watson can’t be in on the secret, he has to believe his friend is dead.

But Sherlock was falling roughly spread-eagle and face-down. The body was on its right side. Something wasn’t quite in line there. Sherlock fell onto the bags/debris/garbage/concealed mattress and scurried away when everyone else was gathered around the body.

And, of course, there’s the scene in the graveyard.

Could someone explain the "waiting for the signal from (or not getting the signal) from Moriarty to kill Watson, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson? What was the signal? And I have my doubts that Moriarty is really dead, despite seeing his suicide and lifeless body.

Thanks mods for putting my thread in the proper place. I am late to the party & just discovered this wonderful show.

Now, I have read the theories about how the death could possibly have been faked. What will be interesting will be how Holmes restores his reputation - and his relationship with Watson.

The signal to kill Watson, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson was if Sherlock had not jumped. I don’t think it was specified how long he had to do it- if he had stood there for 6 hours I don’t know if they would have waited to see if he climbed down or jumped off. But if he had just walked out of the building the henchmen would have killed his friends.

I’m pretty sure Moriarty is dead. Him shooting himself just shows how crazy he is and obsessed with Holmes. Sherlock outsmarted him when he realized that Moriarty could call of the killings if he wanted to, I presume by texting a message out to the henchmen or something like that. So then Moriarty played his trump card and killed himself rather than send out the stop signal. He was so obsessed with proving he was smarter than Holmes that he was willing to kill himself over it.

Also, I haven’t read the original story, but as I understand it Moriarty does die and Holmes doesn’t. So if Moriarty was still alive that would leave a lot of fans very annoyed.

Here’s the Google street view of where John was when Sherlock jumped.

Critically, he can’t see the ground in front of Barts. A small garbage truck filled with soft stuff is seen to drive away shortly after Sherlock jumps.

Here’s a link to a tumblr blog that goes into huge details about this episode, various theories, etc.

I am surprised somewhat that there needs to be such criticism of obvious plotting flaws in these TV shows. The original stories were full of senseless plots that did not stand up to close analysis - that was sort of the fun of it that you had to suspend your disbelief just enough to enjoy the ride.

If they were reworked such that they made sense they would lose the magic for me instantly. It is the feel of being in on the joke, of getting all the references and reworkings of the original stories that makes it fun.

Not sure it would work for me if I had not already read all the plots, but it is clear it does and that some on here have not read all the original stories. That it works for them too then suggests a really nifty bit of writing has been pulled off.

For those that are not already aware there is a number of commentaries on the original stories that work like a self referencing joke - taking as read that the stories are real and historic records of a true life detective and then trying to make them work logically explaining all the errors away (often relying on Watson’s awful Doctor’s handwriting).

http://www.wessexpress.com/html/shrl.html