She's Having a Baby

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

I’ve never gotten to be a troll before! When do I get my cave filled with gold?

It was one-thirty in the morning and I’d just had a bomb dropped on me (this girl is like a little sister and a daughter), so whaddya want, objective impersonality?

Diane, thanks a bunch for understanding that it doesn’t take a wealthy “adult” to make a good parent. If she decides to go with her mom’s offer, I’m absolutely certain that both MJ and her baby will be just fine.

FTR, she’s modifying her diet, etc to the benefit of the child. Whatever she decides to do, abortion is at the bottom of the list, and she wants to give birth to a healthy child. Maybe I’m just a big ol’ dummy, but I don’t think that signifies immaturity or a willingness to shrug off the responsibility and decisions to someone else. I think that whatever she decides, she’ll be able to live with it.

Veni, Vidi, Visa … I came, I saw, I bought.

22

I have a friend who ended up pregnant at 20. Single, no college, nothing. OK, 20 isn’t 16, but it’s not like she was exactly prepared to have a baby, either. In a way, 16 would have been easier because my 20 year old friend had to find ways to support herself financially and all that. Her parents lived many hundreds of miles away and weren’t all that excited about her being pregnant, so in a lot of ways she was on her own.

She had the baby, kept it, kept working through most of the pregnancy and a little bit after. She then went back to school, moved into family housing, and got a degree. The baby is now a six year old, and my friend has a job making pretty good money. In between all this, my friend managed to continue to have a life, see friends, get out and have fun when she wanted to, etc. etc. Her daughter is one of the happiest and most well adjusted children I’ve ever known.

It is possible. I hope to God that this girl isn’t listening to all you people who say that her life is over. God help us she believes that! My friend is by no means a genious or anything else. She just made up her mind that she could raise a child and have a life, too. Not that it was easy, but she wasn’t miserable all the time, either.

23

I also had a friend who had a baby before she was quite ready. The father wanted no part in it, so he fell off the planet, leaving Kitten (that was her name, yeah) to raise her daughter alone. Kitten also had no family to help. She loved that girl with all her heart and was an excellent mom, despite personal problems of her own. She was also a good and loving friend.
Last year, a man broke into Kitten’s apartment (mercifully, her daughter was at school), beat her, raped her, and murdered her, then burned the place to the ground.
Kitten’s daughter now has NO mom, no dad, no extended family of any sort, no money, nothing. Last I heard, Kitten’s coworkers were holding an event to raise money for the little girl. She’s about 9 now.

So, sure, things can turn out just fine. Or they could turn out just awfully, or somewhere in between. It is the child who has to live with the consequences of the parent’s gamble.

24

That is very sad about your friend Holly, but do you think that Kitten would have given up those years spent with her daughter had she had known she would be killed? Although her daughter will most likely be adopted, she at least has her mothers memory to carry the rest of her life and by the sounds of it, those memories will be good.

I’m not clear what you mean, but are you saying that Kitten should have given her daughter up as soon as she was born and that because she was murdered, it is Kitten’s fault that the little girl is orphaned?

There was a family in my neighborhood who had 4 small children. A few years ago, both parents were killed in an automobile accident. The kids were passed out among relatives and I really don’t know their fate. Do you feel that they should not have had children? It can happen to anyone, not just single parents.

We can’t make decisions on our lives based upon the chance we may die. We are all going to die. The decision to keep and raise a child should not be a right limited to those who have a “back up” parent waiting in the wings in case something happens. What if something happened to the “back up” parent as well?

>^,^<
KITTEN
Coffee, chocolate, men . . . Some things are just better rich.

25

Umm, Diane,
Read the rest of the sentance please… and get up for school the next morning. Yes we parents will do anything for our kids, at anytime. But lets face it a person has to sleep sometimes, even 16 yr.olds.

Lioness

I don’t know what your problem is, but I’ll bet it’s really hard to pronounce.

26

Sure Lioness, I did read the entire sentence and my statement still stands. A good parent (no matter what the age) will suffer through many things for her children, even if it means getting up with a baby at 3:00 a.m. and still get to school on time.

I think too many people are over generalizing here. Not all teenage parents are irresponsible, sad, or have a hard life. On the same token, not all older mothers are good parents.

If this girl is determined to raise this baby and is able to accept the responsibility along with the help of her mother (this is a BIG plus), then why should she be expected to give the baby up for adoption?

>^,^<
KITTEN
Coffee, chocolate, men . . . Some things are just better rich.

27

I don’t blame my friend Kitten for the way things turned out. She always did the best she knew how, and she loved that kid. But love isn’t all it takes to raise a child. I think everyone (not just 16 year olds, but everyone) should think realistically about it before they decide to have and /or raise a child.

Kitten had no family, none. She was an orphan herself, who was raised by a grandmother who had passed away. There was no father in the picture. It was Kitten and her daughter against the world; she KNEW she would be that child’s only support. She also knew that she couldn’t afford life insurance; heck, one Christmas I gave Kitten half the plates and bowls and silverware out of my own cupboard because she and her daughter didn’t have any dishes of their own. I assume they burned up in the fire, too. (::wipes tears out of her eyes here: :slight_smile:

I’m not saying Kitten should have put her child up for adoption, but I think she might have if she’d considered how tenuous the situation really was. Knowing Kitten, I think if she knew she would die while her daughter was small, she would not have kept her. She wouldn’t have wanted to put her through that. But I can’t know for sure, because Kitten is gone.

28

AAACK! That smiley face was not supposed to be there! How inappropriate! Please disregard it!

29

Diane, of course we’re generalizing - but we’re talking about a 16 year old! I don’t know any 16 year old with enough maturity, experience or intelligence to give a child everything it wants or needs. Cripes, we’re this is about someone who hasn’t even finished high school yet! Do you really think a high schooler would make a good parent? REALLY?? The baby aside, think of what the 16 year old is going to miss out of life: no parties, no travels, no serious career. If she chooses to do those things anyway, her child will be (or at least feel) neglected.

Sure, encourage the kid to have and keep the child, but don’t stick around to help it grow. Typical. Are you going to send her a check each month?

30

This is off the subject, but the story about your friend is really sad.

Did they ever catch the person who killed her?

You said that she was a good mother and loved her daughter with all her heart. I think your friend and her daughter are lucky that they got to spend at least 8 years together, even knowing the tragic end.

>^,^<
KITTEN
Coffee, chocolate, men . . . Some things are just better rich.

31

Maybe I’m just more resourceful than some people, but I fail to see exactly how a child screws up a person’s life. My mom managed to be a single mother of two children, raise us well, work, continue her education, and have a social life. We weren’t rich, but we weren’t starving or cold, either.

It takes a village. Regardless whether you’re a two-income family or a struggling single parent, a support system is in play with grandparents, siblings, and friends.

Knowing MJ and her family, I’m not worried in the slightest about the wellbeing of the child. My only concern is that I’m there to support whatever decision she makes and help out any way I can.

Veni, Vidi, Visa … I came, I saw, I bought.

32

“Everybody is entitled to make mistakes, it’s when you don’t learn from you’re mistakes that the real problems begin.” quote from my Mom, who had me at 18 and went to her HS prom 6 months pregnant with me. She also went on to get two degrees and be valedictorian for her BS. She is a dynamo.

Tell your friend that the immature 20 year old (who should not be sleeping with 16 year olds in the first place, but I digress) is going to have to be a father whether he likes it or not…at least monetarily. He will have to pay child support whether he sees the child or not. She probably needs to see an attorney once she has his name on the baby’s birth certificate (if she keeps it, of course).

Then tell her to go to a doctor! Get tested for STDs (a really good idea any way you look at it), get some prenatal vitamins, etc.

Tell her to call WIC (Women, Infants & Children), they’ll help out with food staples if she’s hard up for cash.

If she ends up keeping the baby, continue to be her friend and encourage her to keep going to school. She’s lucky to have a supportive family and friend. With that…maybe she can also be a good parent. Funnier things have happened.

33

Yes, they did catch and convict the guy who killed Kitten.

I’ll echo Sue’s comments, including the advice about supporting your friend, whatever she chooses to do. No matter what decision she makes, she’ll be grieving.

Whenever I’m tempted to judge other people, I remind myself of my friend Charlette, whose husband was a low-life who cheated on her and generally treated her like dirt. She knew I thought she should leave the bastard. I told her, “Charlette, I think you’re a moron, but if you decide to stay with him, I’ll back you 100%.”
Her husband did eventually come around and decide maybe he WAS a real jerk. They salvaged their marriage and have been living happily together for several years. It’s not the choice I would have made if I’d been in her place, but I’m so happy she was able to make it work. Some people do beat the odds. Most don’t.

34

Update, just in case this is still about MJ:

She has decided that she is not ready for parenthood.

She,her mother, and the baby’s father are going to Planned Parenthood this week to discuss aspects of abortion and adoption, they are also planning on talking to an adoption lawyer.

Thus far, the father, who is a college senior and shares an apartment with two other guys, maintains that he’d rather take full responsibility for the baby than have it adopted by strangers, but MJ would rather have it go to a people who have a lifestyle more suited to raising children.

At least he’s open to going along to PP and adoption counseling.

Veni, Vidi, Visa … I came, I saw, I bought.

35

To answer your question Melanie, yes, as a matter of fact, I do know a few women who became mothers at 16 years old. A friend from high school became a mom at 14!

Generalizations are not fair in this case. There are young mothers who are very responsible and wonderful parents and then there are older women who should have their kids taken away because of neglect/abuse.

With the exception of Chris, no one knows this girl. We do not know how responsible she is. We do not know her financial status. We don’t even know how much of her teenage years she is willing to give up. However, I tend to believe Chris when she says that the girl has support from her family and that she believes that this girl will make a good mother if that is what she chooses to do.

My sister had a baby when she was 16 years old. Just like this girl, she had the support of my parents. She not only finished high school, she also graduated college, and is now in a very well paying career. Her daughter is a straight A student in high school.

I also have similar stories about a good friend, my neighbors daughter, and a friends daughter. I will not bore you with the details, but yes, I know of many cases where single, teenage mothers have kept their babies and did a fantastic job raising them.

Not all teenage girls are capable of becoming a responsible mother. It sounds like this girl is. To say that she should give her baby up for adoption just because of her age and without considering everything else (parental support, maturity, etc.) is unfair and judgmental.

I will ask again:

If this girl is determined and responsible enough to raise this baby and is willing to give up certain things in her life, plus the added benefit of support from her own parents, why should she be expected to give the baby up for adoption?

I just read the new message from Chris but decided not to delete the things I wrote in this post. I still believe that any 16 year old girl who is capable and willing to raise her child, should not be expected to give up her baby. Evidentally, this is not the case of Chris’ friend, and yes, if she is not ready, then she sould give the baby up.

>^,^<
KITTEN
Coffee, chocolate, men . . . Some things are just better rich.

36

Chris, if your friend chooses adoption, please try & make sure they go through reputable agency, one that offers counseling. Adoption lawyers know nothing about what anyone is going through emotionally. One of the best places to go is Catholic Social Services. They offer counseling on a sliding scale, and should she change her mind, and decide to keep, they will help her with anything she needs. You don’t need to be Catholic to get help from them, and religion does not factor into anything. I would also strongly encourage her to give open adoption a try. She can choose the adoptive parents, meet them before the baby is born, and have a continuing relationship with the child. Eleven years ago, that’s what I chose to do, and it was one of the best things I could have done for myself and my child.

Planned Parenthood also has great services. Contrary to what alot of people think, they do way more than perform abortions. If that’s what she chooses, they will make darn sure she’s explored all her options before they do anything. I’ve been there, too.

37

Cristi: I will C&P your message for her.

Diane: I have told you that you are a god-desse, right?

Veni, Vidi, Visa … I came, I saw, I bought.

38

I was thinking the same about you. You are a Goddess and a scholar, but most of all a good friend to this girl.

Whatever route she chooses, it’s going to be rough. Cristi’s advice is wonderful! I can’t imagine what it would be like to know that you have a child somewhere in the world and not knowing anything about them. Are they being taken care of? Are they loved? Where are they? What do they look like?

Not only would an open adoption ease all fears, it would give the baby even more people to love it.

>^,^<
KITTEN
Coffee, chocolate, men . . . Some things are just better rich.

39

Holy Cow!

Ok, first, we all know people(single mothers) who did a FAB-U-LOUS! job, and we all know people who never should have been parents.

STATISTICALLY…we know most 16 year olds dont make great moms, they end up on welfare,in housing projects,unhappy and all that stuff.

Its like that thread: Does she even know his name?..we all have heard horror stories, and sucess stories. But we all favor the cautious route.

This is a common sense thing.

Are we not the same people who encouraged Cessandra to wait to be engaged because that is a big commitment at age 18?

Well, a baby at age 16 is a *life long *commitement, you cant get a divorce from motherhood. (Yes, I know people abandon kids etc…but go with me on this one.)

My points are

a)At sixteen, she cant possibly understand the ramifications of being the sole parent for a tiny helpless human.

b)if she keeps the baby, the rest is all hit or miss. IF she finishes school, IF she gets support from the dad, IF she gets help from her mom, IF she can find a job, IF she can juggle, alone and very young, the demands of a baby, school, and the teen life…IF she can successfully navigate all this, she may end up with a happy well adjusted child.

c) if she gives the baby up, it will have 2 parents, (who have been screened through the wazoo) who can financially cope with a baby, who are deeply commited already (years on a waiting list). So the baby makes out like a bandit, and she STILL has the rest of her life to be whatever she wants to make of herself. High school, college, maybe travel, then someday marry and get a house, then when she is ready…a baby.
Whatever she decides, I sincerely wish her the best of luck.
Abortin is hard to forget, and with adoption you know you have a kid somewhere, and wonder how the child is, birthdays will be hard etc. There is no easy answer.

40

Having just read what I posted, I thought that I should clarify that it is my own feeling that having a child out in the world but not knowing anything about him would be torture - for me. I wouldn’t handle it well.

However, I am not condeming those who have put their children up for adoption and have no contact. In a lot of cases, it is the best option. Every person is different, every situation is different, and no one (including me) is in a position to judge. I sure hope I didn’t come off as sounding like I was.

>^,^<
KITTEN
Coffee, chocolate, men . . . Some things are just better rich.