I was about 12 when Bush Sr. declared war on Iraq the first time. You can damn well bet it dominated my thoughts. I was terrified that my country was at war. I thought I would get hurt. Nuclear proliferation wasn’t as big a deal then as it was in the 1970s, but that age, MAD had already been covered in school. Probably SALT, also (though I’m leaning more toward high school in dredging up that memory). You think those kids who had to duck under their desks in nuclear “fire drills” didn’t know what the hell they were doing or what to be afraid of? Do you not expect a 12 year old of today to answer “Saddam Hussein” or “Osama Bin Laden” when asked the same question? Because I certainly do.
Well, for what it’ s worth, I was very specifically worried about nuclear war at that age. I don’t think that I would have specifically used the word proliferation, but then again I am not the president’s son, so the types of conversations that I overheard growing up would differ.
I don’t see why that’s necessarily dishonest, although it is perhaps a little disingenuous. Kids pay attention to what their parents think and do, and if your daddy is the sitting president of the United States, you’re going to hear about their political views pretty much constantly. I find it utterly plausible that a twelve year old Amy Carter would think that “nuclear proliferation” was the number one problem in 1970-whatever, because that’s undoubtably what she’d heard her daddy and her daddy’s friends (other Democrats) say over and over. Now, as to wether Amy Carter knew what the words “nuclear proliferation” actually meant, I have my doubts. But I see no reason to think that Carter was lying, or even being purposefully misleading, in sharing that anecdote.
No shit! Scary, huh? 
A good point as usual, Miller. I must confess to having misremembered when the quote occurred. I was thinking it was in the '76 debate with Ford but it was in the '80 debate with Reagan, and Carter had indeed been president for nearly four years by that time. So I guess in retrospect I could see how she might have picked up the term. Still, for whatever reason, it had me rolling on the floor at time, probably as an offshoot of the contempt I had already developed for him by that point. In other words, I was so scornful of him by then that I viewed anything he said as probably being manipulative and untrue.
Too late for apologies. Following the elections, you’re off to the Soylent Green factory!
No worries. I’m so skinny, they’d reject me 
No such luck. You go in the “Soylent Green Lite” vat.
You mean Soylent Green is made from people?
I think you underestimate what a 12 year old is capable of. I was quite knowledgable about politics even at that age.
When Moses commanded, “You gotta tell 'em!.. Soylent Green is people!”, I knew what my mission in life would be. I was damned nervous when I heard the ‘Green’ party was holding a rally in my town, and green Jello went on sale the same day…
You’re mistaking a pratfall and a seizure for ballet again.
[quote=Kimstu]
If President Bush went on television and said “My fellow Americans, I regret to inform you that there appears to be a large meteorite on a collision course with North America and we must take emergency measures”—
—and there were also several reputable astronomers who backed him up on the bad news—
—then if I said “Bush is a poopy-head and a liar and therefore I’m going to dismiss anything he says and ignore this mythical meteorite”----
—then what kind of American would I be? That’s right, a bad one. Not to mention a pretty stupid one.
[quote]
Please cite several objective, reputable politicians or analysts backing up Carter on the Florida thing. Otherwise the analogy just doesn’t hold.
Great OP as usual, Poly, but I’ve rarely seen you in the Pit, and never with such, how shall I put it, fucking Passion! I’ve always seen you as sort of priestly (in a non-judgemental sort of way). Your post was true Pit materail. [Dom Irera] And I don’t mean that in a bad way.[/Dom Irera]
I’m not implying she wasn’t smart or mature enough to know about nuclear proliferation, but I doubt that many 12-year-olds would have thought of it in those terms. I also doubt that many 12-year-olds would have considered it the world’s most pressing or important problem. Rather, I would expect that if you asked most 12-year-old children, especially in that more innocent time, what the most important problem facing the world was, they would be more likely to say either “the atom bomb” or “nuclear weapons,” not “nuclear proliferation”…provided of course that they thought something nuclear was the biggest problem. I wouldn’t expect too many 12-year-olds to be concerned that too many countries were getting atomic weaponry and that this therefore was the world’s number one problem.
And besides, I would expect non-nuclear issues would be more likely on the minds of most 12-year-olds. I would think something like “world peace” or “world hunger” would be more along the line of reasoning for most people of that age. It was with me, anyway.
But too, like Miller said, her father was president and she may well have picked up both the term and the perception of its great importance from her father and those around him.
Still, it smacked of either dishonesty or disingenuousness for Carter to try to make it seem that this was such a pressingly important issue that even 12-year-old children were worried about it.
How ya doin’, SA?
Amy was unusually bright and not in a typical situation. I agree that most 12 year olds wouldn’t react with that response. Carter was not known for being dishonest. To the contrary, he admitted to something that must have been personally embarrassing for him. I have not heard his character criticized much – only his success as a President.
President Bush invited a group of international observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe – a 55 nation group – to examine our election situation. They have concluded that problems may again delay the results past Election Day. These problems include inaccurate voter registration lists, absentee ballots, allegations of voter intimidation, equipment changes and slow implementation of the Help America Vote Act.
For more information, read the thread that Polycarp linked to in the OP – Post #40.
Shodan, as long as it remains more important to a very vocal and partisan segment of the citizens to criticize the messengers rather than address the message, our country is in danger of once again having a President that we are uncertain was actually fairly elected to office. Whether it be Kerry or Bush, *our country can’t continue to be truly united with this much uncertainty and distrust.
I will not pit you. I refuse to believe that you hate Jimmy Carter more than you love free elections.
You are much younger than I took you for. More innocent time? The U.S. lost the last shreds of innocence it had clung to between 1970 and 1973. By 1980, innocence was a vague memory held by old people. And I can assure you that nuclear war was something that inspired a very visceral fear in children much younger than twelve for years prior to 1980. The use of the word proliferation would tend to be unusual for a child, but hardly out of line for the precocious daughter of a sitting president.
I have no idea of the exact exchange (if any) between Jimmy and Amy Carter, but the “arguments” lodged against it are as weak as or weaker than Carter’s original anecdote.
I’m doin’ fine, Zoe, thanks for asking. It’s good to hear from you. 
Regarding your post, I know the perception is that Carter is an honest man, and I’m afraid it’s been long enough now that I can’t really come up with specifics, but I thought he was devious and underhanded and dishonest in certain ways and not at all the sterling, upright citizen that everyone liked to portray him as being. I think a lot of his good guy image was just an attempt by the (here comes that dreaded word) media to counteract the Republicans against whom he was running in the wake of the Nixon years – which were portrayed as the height of dishonesty and evil – and, once elected, in an attempt to keep him in office once he got there.
I know you don’t agree. I respect that and I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. I’m just explaining why I think the way I do, given Carter’s reputation as a good guy.
Regards.
I wouldn’t be too sure about that.
Oh, I would disagree quite strongly. 1980 wasn’t an innocent time compared with 1970, but it was a considerably more innocent time than now.
Exactly! Nuclear war was a visceral fear, not nuclear proliferation.
As I have acknowledged.
Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah? Well…that’s just what you say!
Polycarp swore. I’m disillusioned.
Warren Harding? Millard Fillmore?