Shooters / Gun Enthusiasts - Slide question

In My Humble Opinion
1

I encountered something new at the range recently, while working with an instructor.

We were shooting handguns and changing magazines* (and continuing to fire). When inserting the second magazine, she cautioned me not to chamber the round by using my thumb to release the slide-lock. Her contention was that I should always pull/release the slide (some vague reason about stress on the weapon).

I’ve never heard this, and was wondering what the experts here have to say. It seems that the forces and impacts from firing a round are far in excess of what results when I release the lock and let the slide move forward to chamber a new magazine’s first round.

What’s the Straight Dope on this?
*FTR: Not rapid-fire, our goal was an average over 20 rounds.

2

Stranger On A Train addressed this in a recent thread. Dropping the slide by using the slide release lever rather than drawing the slide back wears out the slide lock and it won’t lock back when empty ( or when you need to lock it back).

3

I didn’t see that thread, but this is the only reason I could think of for not using the release lever.

But so what if it wears out? You just replace it. It’s very easy to do, at least on a Colt 1911 or a Beretta 92.

4

Here are the reasons I’ve heard, but don’t really agree with.

  1. In a stressful situation you might fumble with the little slide release, it’s more reliable to grab the slide. People like to say using the slide release requires “fine motor skill” that you may be lacking in a stressful situation.

  2. Pistols are different and unless you only ever use one gun, you might find yourself looking for the release in the wrong place.

  3. Wear and tear.

When I was younger and had free time for hobbies and such, I used to shoot in a bunch of local competitions and fired about 15,000-20,000 rounds per year. I mostly used my own pistol but would often trade with other guys and use theirs too. These were timed courses like the FBI Q, Sky Marshall’s and MEU(SOC) pistol courses and although they weren’t as stressful as a real gunfight, they were still stressful for the shooter. I’m a weirdo and used to mentally analyze every movement I made to the point that when I drew my pistol or reloaded or brought it up to aim, I was using the most efficient movement I could come up with and using the slide never meshed with my shooting style.

  1. You have already operated the safety (if it has one), pulled the trigger enough to empty a magazine, released the magazine and inserted a fresh one. You probably don’t have a problem with fine motor skills.

Reloading under stress can go wrong, but I never saw anyone have trouble releasing the magazine or the slide. What I did see was people dropping the fresh magazine or attempting to put it in backwards. This is a large arm and hand movement where you have to grab an object off your belt and bring it up and insert it into a hole of the same size, and it goes wrong more often than a simple thumb flick. So, to me, if the slide release is a potential problem, it’s much better to practice using the slide release so that it’s not a problem than to bring another arm movement into the equation.

Plus, for my over-analyzed shooting style, a reload is a very fluid movement. The weapon comes halfway down as I release the mag, left hand grabs a new mag, puts it in as the weapon is going back up, flip the release and move my left hand into firing position as I am going back on target. Assigning my weak hand an extra task and putting it on top of the weapon is awkward and distracting.

  1. There is some validity to this, and in my opinion you should always have the slide method in the back of your mind ready to use if you’re using a strange gun. Personally, I’ve used plenty of strange pistols and a quick glance to find all the features beforehand was all I ever needed.

  2. Who cares? I’ve never seen one wear out. It’s called a “slide release lever,” that’s what it’s there for. If you’re worried about wear and tear, you shouldn’t be firing the gun to begin with.

5

On an M-16A1, I never had problems using the bolt release/smack the forward assist plunger 2x method.

6

The M-16 with its forward assist assembly is kind of a special case.

There are several reasons not to release the slide via depressing the slide stop. As already mentioned, once is increased wear; basically, by forcing it to release you are loading it against the slide/bolt in a way that it isn’t designed to release in, analogous to riding the clutch on a manual transmission car. Yes, it is an inexpensive piece which can be purchased from aftermarket suppliers and installed by anyone who can perform a complete field stripping of the weapon. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea, nor is it a part you want to fail under duress, e.g. in combat.

Aside from that, teaching or training to release the slide via the stop promotes poor form and potentially unsafe handling. Most people with most pistols have to adjust their firing hand grip on the weapon in order to reach the slide stop with their thumb, often to the degree that the weapon is essentially pointing sideways. Once the stop is released, a round is chambered and the gun is placed in battery. Should it be facing in the general direction of another person, the shooter has then violated Rule #2.(“Never let the muzzle cover anything you are unwilling to destroy.”) The pistol then has to be rotated back to the firing grip, which seems easy under normal handling, but in the stress of combat good training focuses on minimizing any fine motor handling movements. Generally speaking, once you’ve drawn a pistol from the holster and as long as it is in battery, you want to keep it in the firm firing grip with minimal adjustment so that your trigger technique is not impaired.

There is also another consideration; the slide stop ensures that the weapon remains open on an empty magazine. Should you go to reload, become distracted in some fashion and either fail to drop the magazine and reload, or swap magazines and then accidentally reload with the empty (both have happened to people I know), forcing the slide stop down will not indicate that you have an empty magazine. However, pulling back on the slide or bolt to release it will.

The only good argument for leasing the slide by depressing the slide stop is that it doesn’t require two hands. However, you are going to need two hands anyway to reload, unless you load by dropping or holstering the weapon and reload with the firing hand. Since this is already a contingency operation that requires special procedures, there is no reason to make accommodation for this in normal two-handed reloading. If you only have one usable hand to begin with you should probably just plan on carrying two separate weapons (if you feel so inclined to carry at all) rather than planning on reloading with one hand under stress.

Stranger

7

I shoot in action pistol matches and have an extended slide stop lever so I can release the slide with my thumb. The lever lies in just the right spot for me to hit it without changing my grip.

8

It certainly looks cooler to grab the slide.

9

FWIW, some firearms manufacturers (Kahr at least) ask in their owner’s manuals that the slide stop be used to release the slide. I don’t on the model in question, as the slide stop on it is a PITA to move, but that’s what the manual says.

Also, slingshotting the slide compresses the recoil spring more than releasing the slide from the slide stop point does. This may more easily put the firearm into battery than just thumbing the slide release. I shot a Wilson Combat during a demo day that would not go completely into battery if you just thumbed the slide lever, but worked like a charm with slingshotting. For $3k plus, it should work however I want it to, but there you go…

Slickest of all is for the slide to pop into battery upon (firm) insertion of the fresh magazine. Mine won’t, but a friend had a Glock that would do it regularly for me. Probably a bad thing, if the slide ever starts going forward before the mag rises enough for the breech to catch that first round, but I did enjoy it at the time.

10

Stranger has the right of it. This time.

11

I know, right? They make some nice weapons, but seriously, a 1911 is a 1911. Quality parts, and attention to machining and slide matching will give you minute-of-perp accuracy, and you certainly don’t need to spend a used car on it!*

I’m an NRA instructor, and was taught, and believe the general consensus among instructors is: Rack It! Slingshot that slide. As Gray said, compressing the spring just a bit more and releasing ensures that a round will seat if the chamber is getting dirty, or your cheap practice ammo isn’t just in perfect spec. Your AR has a solution to this, but your pistol doesn’t. Unless you have an AR pistol, smartypants!

IMHO, the mag should have a tab that releases the slide when FULLY seated, like GG’s friend’s Glock. It may negate the extra “oomph” of racking, but cool is cool, ya know?
*Actually, I just got a new Sig Nightmare last month, and it was much more than some of the cars I get at auctions!:smack:

12

  1. Can someone link me to that other thread with Stranger’s answer? [yeah, I’m being lazy, but I also think it’s worth linking to this one.]

  2. I wasn’t formally trained and didn’t do competitions, but when I was heavily into shooting at the range, I developed my own speed-loading technique that seems a bit different than what’s mentioned here:

A) I knew I had 10-round magazines (California limits).
B) I wore a shoulder-holster rig and had double mag-holders attached to the non-weapon suspender strap, one holder in front and one in back. That let me carry a full box of 50 rounds (2x10 front, 2x10 back, 1x10 in the magazine well) and, while it was a slog to load them all up before a session, I was also free of the reloading effort between 10-round bursts.
C) I practiced a quick-grab technique, reaching to the small of my back (lumbar region?) and sliding my hand upward until it met a magazine (around rib/shoulderblade level), then I’d grasp and pull while squeezing the mag-release on the pistol*, and sliding the new mag up and into the magazine well, all while maintaining the target in my sights. My intention was to develop muscle-memory through repetition; basically learning to reload without having to watch myself reload, so my eyes could keep track of the target environment.
D) For my first magazine, I’d count nine shots, then do my magazine-changing trick; for the rest of the exercise, I’d count to ten (it becomes instinctive after a while.) That meant my last round from a magazine was chambering the first round of the next magazine – which meant I wasn’t using the slide-lock at all (or losing track of the target scene) between magazines.

The gun didn’t know the difference. To it, I just had a super-long magazine. :slight_smile:
The range didn’t allow rapid-firing (>2 shots per second), so I’d blast some moderate-paced music on my way to the range and that tempo would be in the back of my head while I was practicing.@ My self-training goal was to be able to do my quick-change trick between beats/shots.

FWIW, my weapon is a .45ca Witness$ and the slide-lock is an easy reach for the index finger.% It also doubles as a retaining pin for the slide and, since it comes out in order to fully clean the gun after a day at the range, it’s an easy and relatively cheap piece to replace. I love that gun! Super easy maintenance and a wonderful fit for my hand. I just wish there were more ranges within easy access up here.
–G!

#If I couldn’t feel the magazine(s) pressing against my back, I knew I had already used those two; my subsequent grabs were easier, pulling the spare mags from the dual front holder.
*At the range, I would do this over the shooting booth’s barrier/tray, with a towel spread out to dampen the shock on the empty magazines when they dropped.
@When I started, it was some pretty slow songs to give me time to get used to the activity. As I grew accustomed to it, my songs grew faster–though not more than two-beats per second because the range rules considered 2+ shots per second to be rapid-firing. Later on, though, I learned to cheat a bit by firing double-taps with longer pauses in between. For some reason, the range guys allowed that. Unfortunately, the double-taps didn’t work well with my quick-change exercise.
%I also learned to squeeze-drop a magazine, shove a full one up the well, and flick the slide-lock off without taking my eyes off the iron sights. I developed my quick-change idea because the act of releasing the slide would always force the pistol forward/down (changing pitch angle?) and since my index finger was extended and straight (from pressing the slide release) it couldn’t help the other fingers resist that change in pitch.
$Produced by Tanfoglio of Italy and imported to the States by European American Arms (EAA). It’s actually a copy of a Czechoslovakian pistol, the CZ, but the CZ is normally a 9mm and the EAA/Tanfoglio imitator has a wider variety of barrel sizes available. They’re even interchangeable!

13

Here’s a few things to keep in mind.

You probably don’t want to use an overhand or slingshot method on a Beretta without a lot of practice or you’ll engage the decocker/safety. The method will also not work with a 1911 with a Shok-Buff installed and I think a couple manufacturers state to use the slide release and not the overhand/slingshot method because the spring is so tight that slingshotting the slide can cause limp-wristing.

If you’re using the slide release, don’t worry about wear and tear. If you aren’t inspecting/replacing parts on your pistol, you shouldn’t rely on it anyway and there are several other parts that will wear out before the slide release on an unmaintained pistol.

One method not mentioned is using the left hand thumb to release the slide lock. People who can’t reach the release with their right hand often prefer it.

Whatever method you want to use, practice, practice, practice it.

14

I think its crap advice but maybe its just me. I never professed to be an expert.

For what its worth, in my Springfield XDS manual it specifically states to use the slide lever release. And because I’m boring and not a rebel that’s what I do. :smiley:

I have noticed that when I have a miss fire (missfire, miss-fire?), I rack the slide overhand and its hit or miss as to whether my next shot is a miss fire or not.

15

So here’s my question, if I’m not supposed to use the slide release to send the slide forward on a fresh magazine, why does the slide lock back on an empty magazine? What possible purpose does that serve? Sure I can release the slide by yanking back on it, but if the slide catch didn’t work or wasn’t there at all, I’d be forced to chamber a round by… yanking back on the slide.

So by using the slide release, I’ll cause a part to wear out, forcing me to use the method that I’m supposedly intended to be using to begin with?

16

Two reasons come to mind.

It makes it apparent that the gun is empty and needs a magazine change.

It’s sometimes difficult to seat a full magazine with the slide closed as you need to further compress the magazine spring to seat it. During competition I often see magazines fall out when not fully seated during a reload with a closed slide.

17

I follow the instructions that came with my guns. As **Gary Ghost **noted, Kahr says to use the release, so I do that with my two Kahrs. I believe Ruger is silent on the matter, and it was my first auto pistol, so my habit with that gun is to release the slide before I insert the new magazine, and then pull back the slide to load the round.

I don’t find the reasoning in Stranger On A Train’s post persuasive at all based on my somewhat limited personal experience. When my Kahrs are empty, it is easy and natural to load a fresh magazine and release the slide with the gun pointed up.

18

The slide locking back provides a visual indication that the magazine is empty. (Under the “tunnel effect” of combat stress perception is often restricted and the shooter may not realize they are pulling on an empty gun, especially double action only pistols.) The locked back slide also facilitates loading and ensures that the shooter doesn’t short-slide (i.e. incompletely retract) the slide or bolt. The slide lock is also used to show that the weapon is out of battery; pistols without a slide lock (mostly cheap straight-blowback pistols) are unsafe in this regard, as they cannot be put out of battery without removing the slide.

I do not understand the supposed prohibition against “slingshotting” the slide, as it will certainly experience full travel all the way to full spring compression when it cycles while firing. As for engaging a slide-mounted safety/decocker such as on the Beretta (or S&W, or other pistols that use such) this is more of an argument against such an arrangement, period. In my opinion, a manual safety or decocting lever should be capable of being engaged by the thumb or forefinger of the shooting hand without adjusting the firing grip, e.g. the Browning Hi-Power, 1911-type pistols, or the Sig Sauer frame-mounted decocker, again for the same reasons that you don’t want to have to rotate the pistol to engage the slide lock.

Stranger

19

The way I understand it is that using the slide release guarantees that the slide is all the way back when it goes forward to load the chamber. Sling-shotting runs the risk of resulting in a shorter than necessary backward motion, which can result in a failure to load. I experienced this personally on a Kahr CW40, when it was new and I did not yet have a feel for the gun. When I re-RTFM, I learned I was supposed to be using the slide release, and began practicing that way.

20

That doesn’t really make any sense. The slide stop doesn’t force the slide backward when released; in fact, it works the other way around, i.e. you have to pull back on the slide in order to release the slide stop. The only way this could be a problem is pulling back the slide and then easing it forward. The only reason I could imagine that Kahr recommends depressing the slide stop to release is that the subcompact and subcompact pistols they offer have short barrels and slides, and a shooter who habitually releases the slide by grasping the forward portion of the slide (as many IPSC shooters used to do when when frame-mounted red dot sights restricted access to the rear serrations) may inadvertantly place his or her hand in front of the muzzle. My combat pistol instructor courses all directed that students should be taught to release the slide stop via pulling back on the slide (either in the “thumb forward” or “full palm grip/thumb back” position depending on the student’s grip strength) and when I was teaching that is the method I directed with zero problems. On the other hand, depending on the pistol the slide stop lever is often very stiff, very small, or otherwise ill-placed for easy release without shifting grip. For instance, on the Sig Sauer pistols, the slide stop is located aft of the frame-mounted decocking lever and would be impossible to reach by just articulating the thumb. On the other hand, I notice on the Browning Hi-Power and CZ-75 type pistols, the slide stop is located forward of that location, just aft and above of the trigger guard where the thumb could readily rest upon it.

However, returning to the issue of avoiding any motions that require fine motor skills and precise manipulation, I would still contend that releasing the slide stop by retracting the slide (and releasing it at full retraction, which is simple to train for and in the heat of combat a shooter would likely jerk back so hard that they’d lose grip when the spring is at full compression anyway) is a better and more reliabie method during reloading.

Stranger