Good article in general, but I think there’s a typo. I think it should read
Ah, I didn’t forget, but I didn’t cover them, true. I was focused mainly on movie and TV-type blanks, and left out discussing those type which you provided information on above. Thank you for posting the first-hand experience you have, I imagine it must be a lot of fun to do those sorts of re-enactments. I knew people who were so into WW2 re-enactments that they even had a half-track, but they used a compressed air “gun” on the vehicle to make the “machine gun” sound. I do not know, to tell the truth, if they used blanks or any ammunition at all in their weapons, so your experience is enlightening.
Another type of blank I didn’t discuss explicitly is typified by the shell I found once when searching for Iron Age ruins. It is a .30-06, but has the case extend up in the shape of a slug, with only a very small hole (about 3mm diameter) at the tip. I was told by a firearms expert that it was an old sort of rifle blank used for M1 Garand-type rifles, but I’ve never seen them referred to elsewhere. I wonder if they would be used for re-enactments as well?
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I didn’t get it at first; I thought I had really made a typo. :o
I’ve got a personal observation that I can add…
I’ve been at a gun club where a couple of men did a demonstration on the dangers of using blanks. They were using a pistol (don’t remember the type) and shooting blanks made of toilet paper. They were able to put holes in aluminum soda cans at as far away as five paces.
(From the referenced mailbag question:
It occurs to me that the letter-writer may be confusing the 1984 accidental death of Jon-Eric Hexum with the 1977 suicide of Freddy Prinze.
Do I recall correctly a scene in the movie Sleuth , in which Lawrence Olivier shoots Michael Caine in the head from about 0" with a blank and no damage is done?
When i was in high school, I was in the school production of Oklahoma! I played Jud Fry, the bad guy. Curley, the hero, was supposed to come into my dingy room and fire a pistol right past my head and leave, so I could sing my solo.
In rehearsals, we used a cap gun. Unbeknownst to me, they changed it to a blank for opening night. I caught a burning faceful of powder and chaff.
I think the solo went pretty well, considering.
I don’t know about the movie, but a starter’s pistol would be safe (as “safe” as doing stupid things with explosives can ever be), and I suspect a .22 short blank would probably do no harm, either (though I wouldn’t try it).
FWIW, I recall watching a show on Brandon Lee or reading an article (or maybe both) which indicated that while practicing the scene with dummy rounds, one of the cartridges had sufficient power in the primer to knock the bullet into the barrel of the gun. Then when they did the scene with blanks, the force from the blank drove the bullet up to normal speeds and killed Brandon Lee.
As I also recall, the propsmaster was handling the weapons as opposed to the armsmaster, in addition to the mixing of shells already noted by Una.
I’ll see if I can dig up some cites, if anyone is interested.
Many starter pistols are built such that the discharge is vertical rather than in the direction of the barrel. That might make it safer, but I still wouldn’t do it as damage to your hearing would probably occur.
What makes you think the effect was done with a blank? The visual could be accomplished with a low power squibb, pneumatic maybe, and the sound added by the Foley artist in post.
The sound of a primer alone from a handgun at close range is probably enough to cause permanent hearing damage. The expelled gas and material from a primer is enough to cause serious injury at close range. I’m not sure about centerfire promers but I’m pretty sure they contain a small amount of ground glass as do rimfire primers. I may not have a chance until this weekend but I will make up some primer-only blanks and demonstrate what they can do on “test media.” I can assure you that they won’t be tested on my face.
I recall Peter David writing a very strong column on the subject after Brandon Lee’s death, arguing that Hollywood should quit using real guns altogether and substitute SFX.
I agree, and will add another argument. California in general, and the localities where the main studio stages are located in particular, has some rather strict gun control laws – basically, a private citizen has to prove that he needs a gun (and ordinary self-defense isn’t considered enough – it has to be something like being responsible for transporting big piles of cash or guarding VIPs). Hollywood, obviously, does not need real guns to film cop shows any more than it needs real death rays to film science fiction shows.
Padeye, you’re missing the point – perhaps you’ve never seen Sleuth. The scene involves firing a weapon held against Michael Caine’s head, but with no harm done; the question was whether the effect on Mr. Caine (nil) could be realistic, and what the weapon would have to be to make it so.
No, I have not seen SLeuth, but the description of the scene was quite clear. I’m not sure what point I was missing. I can’t say for certain what type of gun and FX were used but I feel safe in saying it was not an ordinary blank, even one without a powder charge, fired from an ordinary gun. It may be a week until I can perform a test but I’ll try to demonstrate what a primer only blank can do.
I’ll see if I can rent the movie on DVD but can anyone give me any more detail? Where was the muzzle pressed to Michael Caine’s head? Was there any flash? Flame or just smoke? What type of gun? Revolver?
Here’s the thing; it’s been years since I’ve seen it, and I can’t be sure – but I don’t think the shooting is actually shown onscreen. It’s a psychological thriller, and I think actually showing the shooting would throw off the plot. The question here is whether there are circumstances under which pressing the muzzle of a handgun against a man’s temple and firing off a blank would reliably not injure him.
Probably yes, but with a whole pile of qualifiers.
[DISCLAIMER]I am not a special effect expert. I do not know what safe practices are for the movie industry and anything below is just my WAG based on experience. Do not try this at home. If you blow your head off don’t come running to me, SDMB or our respective attorneys. caveat emptor YMMV[/DISCLAIMER]
Such a shot might be possible using a revolver with a completely solid barrel, no bore, and a larger than normal cylinder gap. You’d basically have a starter’s pistol that looks real. Flash from a primer and any charge would be visible through the cylinder gap as it normally would be when firing a revolver. Still this sounds pretty hazardous and sure as hell and I would not want hot particles to be ejected near my eyes. Doing the same with a pistol is trickier as there is no place for hot gas and particles to go other than out the muzzle. I don’t know of any safe way to do this with a normal firearm.
A starter’s pistol is not a toy, my boy. I participated in track and field in high school. During one race, one of our star athletes got a small powder burn on his leg while standing near our coach. He fired off a round downwards with the starter’s pistol for a final lap of a race. I thought it was pretty funny, until the same thing happen to me at the next event. We still both ran our races that day, albeit a little sore…
The point you are missing is that we were not discussing how the effect was achieved, or whether an actual blank was used on the set. We’re discussing whether the portrayed action - firing a blank in a normal pistol into someone’s head - was in any way realistic, or a goof in the film.
IIRC it was a revolver, and the muzzle was pressed into Caine’s temple so no flash, flame or smoke was visible.
“For reasons that have never been made clear, on October 18, 1984, the 26-year-old Hexum took a .44 Magnum revolver loaded with blanks, pressed the barrel to his head, and fired a single shot.”
He died from TV. More correctly, he died because of something he saw on TV.
At the time Steven Bochco’s highly rated cop drama “Hill Street Blues” was featuring a sub-plot about SWAT Team Captain Howard’s bout of Depression. At the end of the previous weeks episode Howard had placed his 44 Magnum to hia head. The screen goes dark and the sound of a gunshot is heard, then the closing credits roll.
The following week (Oct. 17th) Howard appears in the squadroom with a large bandage on his temple but otherwise unharmed. Later on in the show it’s revealed that his friends on the force had replaced the bullets with blanks in anticipation of a suicide attempt.
The next day (in real life) Hexum was joking around between takes on the set of his show when he imitated what he saw on TV the night before.
My apology. I thought that my answer was clearly inferred. FTR I do not think it is a realistic portrayal of firing a blank from a normal pistol into one’s temple. The death of John-Eric Hexum is a realistic example.
The detail you gave was critical. A revolver has a small gap between cylinder and barrel about as wide as the thickness of two sheets of paper. Visible flame comes out but so briefly it can easily be missed as it might be between frames. Smoke is often not apparent with modern “smokeless” propellant.