At one point Una writes, “To make even more noise, some blanks have their metal casing crimped on the end to hold the paper securely and allow pressure to build–these types of blanks are readily identifiable as a result.”
This would suggest that anyone could identify a blank by its crimped end.
Unfortunately, there are other rounds that have crimped ends that are not blanks.
The ones I know of are called “Bird Shot”. Here’s a link to a picture:
These are essentially tiny shotgun shells that turn an ordinary rifle or handgun into a shotgun…sortof. The crimping is not there to keep in a wad of paper, but to keep in a wad of little metal pellets.
I would hate to hear of someone identifying one of these as a blank based on the crimped end and shooting at a friend.
Please consider modifying the language in the Staff Report.
Interesting as I was not aware of bird shot rounds that were star crimped like blanks.
Different language might be helpful but I doubt if it will help any more than the safety warning in the last paragraph. Anyone who bothers to read safety warnings already knows rule 1 and 2 and would not point even an empty gun at anyone “in play.” Still, given the society we live in a stronger warning may be in order. Gun safety is not the mission of SDMB but perhaps the four rules are in order to perhaps prevent a negligent shooting. This version is my parphrasing but is essentially the same as the Jeff Cooper version.
[ul][li]1: Every gun is loaded[/li][li]2: Never allow a gun to point toward anything you do not wish to destroy[/li][li]3: Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard until you are on target and ready to fire[/li][li]4: Know your target and what is beyond if your bullet penetrates through, misses or ricochets[/li][/ul]
Thank you for reading and commenting on the Staff Report, Gnomonic.
I have seen the birdshot rounds you mention, and have even seen them in .22 caliber, which I find incredible (what is there, like 5 pieces of shot in a line?). I may even have one still; if I do I may post a picture of it.
However, I’m afraid I have to respectfully disagree about the implication of the sentences - I don’t believe the Staff Report suggests in any way how one could or should identify blank rounds from live ones, just pointing out a characteristic of the round. I think the article actually demonstrates just how dangerous blank rounds can be.
That having been said, as a long-time safe firearms user I do understand your concern, and if there is a general feel from the Shooting Teeming Millions that the text is in fact misleading we can edit it.
I didn’t know about Brandon Lee being killed by an actual bullet left in the bore of the gun. I always assumed it was a chunk of brass or other debris in the bore that did it. I do know that on some target firearms that the chamber is tight enough that the bullet will engage the rifling as soon as the round is chambered. If you have a cartridge with a light crimp or no crimp at all (like a dummy round?), the bullet can be pulled out of the case when the round is extracted/ejected and remain in the gun.
I do want to emphasize that what actually happened to the very unfortunate Mr. Lee is a subject of some debate and controversy, even what some might call “conspiracy theories”. I tried to present the “most accepted” hypothesis, and noted that there have been questions raised. Personally, I had never heard of a slug being pulled out of a cartridge from engaging the rifling, so I’m glad you posted to tell me that it could happen. :eek:
Hi Una,
I agree that the article points out how dangerous blank rounds can be.
But I don’t agree with this statement, for what it is worth:
“some blanks have their metal casing crimped on the end…these types of blanks are readily identifiable as a result.”
As a result of what?
As a result of the crimping…I think it reads.
I realize it wasn’t your intent to write the article as a guide to identifying blanks, but the wording suggests to me that a blank could be identified by the crimping. And that just isn’t so. A crimped round might be a blank, and it might not.
Perhaps I am just a worry wart, but I believe this subject deserves an abundance of caution.
My reluctance to change reports is that sometimes the change makes things worse than before in terms of clarity. In the past changes based on one set of comments have resulted in confusion for others, unless the wording is very verbose and complicated.
However, in re-thinking this and wanting to err on the side of firearms safety, I have asked someone with access to the server to make an alteration to the text, based on your query and the information provided by Berkut and Padeye. It may take a wee bit since it’s a Friday.
When I first read “these types of blanks are readily identifiable as a result” I felt a certain frisson from my patented open-to-misinterpretation sense.
Without the bullet, a blank cartridge will not generate the pressure needed to cycle the action of a gas-operated autoloader. There are devices that mount to the end of the barrel and restrict the gas flow out of the barrel so the action will cycle. Movie guns will have them mounted inside the barrel so they don’t show.
I have always seen them called “blank firing adapters”, if you want to try searching on that term.
Years ago, I saw a demonstration in which a man rolled up a newspaper and pulled out a Colt .45 revolver loaded with a 5-in-one blank. After urging our little party of teens and preteens to cover our ears, he fired the revolver at the newspaper roll. The result: confetti, some of it charred by the muzzle blast.
This dramatic little demonstration was to illustrate two facts: That guns are not toys and that blanks are by no means safe. My personal conclusion is that a gun, even a blank-shooting gun, is still very much a deadly weapon and should be treated with care and responsibility.
Where did you hear the term “blank muzzle brake?” Berkut described a blank firing adapter, they can go on the inside to maintain the apperance for movies but the military uses external types so no one accidentally tries to shoot live ammunnition through one which can cause a catastrophic blowup.
Muzzle brakes are a different thing. They direct muzzle gas upward and/or backward to reduce muzzle climb on recoil.
But… You forgot the wood-tipped blanks. We feed them to vintage Lewis and Maxim machineguns when reenacting the first world war… Seems the guns needed a full cartridge profile to reliably function, so instead of a lead bullet, they use a light wood (balsa?) bullet-sized tip. A shredder is affixed which reduces the tip to particles before it is expelled. This also gets around the fact that star-crimped blanks will not reliably cycle the action on an automatic (or semi) firearm. Most modern military weapons use star crimps for simulated firing though, along with a barrel attachment which reduces the barrel opening and creates sufficient backpressure to cycle the weapon. Obviously this is safer than wood tips, especially when one considers the danger of forgetting the barrel shredder and subsequently spraying down one’s target with wood bullets with plenty of velocity.
For our bolt-action rifles (I carry a 1916 SMLE), we primarily use ww2 vintage star crimped blanks that had been intended as propellant for launching rifle grenades. Some of these are sealed with wax around the crimp, and most if not all have additional cardboard wadding under the crimp. My current supply is coming from a previously unopened crate with a 1944 New Zealand headstamp (.303 is a hard caliber to find). One real danger with these older rounds is that the crimped area of the cartridge often becomes brittle over time. This can result in large chunks of brass cracking off and flying downrange. It’s a dangerous passtime, but with appropriate safety precautions we keep the risk to a minimum.