It might not make a huge difference, but some women have said that the greeting makes them feel uncomfortable, so I see no reason to continue with it. No one I know has said anything about a smile and a nod, so I stuck with that.
Not a big deal. Some folks told me something bothered them – it cost me nothing to stop – so I stopped.
You know, we see a real life example of this going on right now with the nurse they’d quarantined for Ebola. Despite how it makes everyone else that’s concerned about it feels, she doesn’t give a shit. She can’t be inconvenienced when it’s even in her best interests (from crackpots, in my estimation). So, if you’re talking about someone who doesn’t even have the good sense to protect themselves from possible harm, how on earth could you get through to these guys when they have such a view of women in the first place?
Local culture is not universally the same. If you’re not sure how welcome your ‘polite’ comments really are, how about trying an experiment! Next time you go out, put on a neutral smile, and look around, making fleeting eye contact with passers by. Open body language. If people you pass smile, nod or whatever,- congratulations! You live in an area where a friendly greeting really is seen as just a friendly greeting!
If you try this experiment and people (especially women) look away or through you, then yes, a greeting will likely come across as odd and potentially threatening.
I’m not exactly being sarcastic- as well as living in a little village where it was expected to greet everyone as you passed them, I’ve lived in two English cities, one very briefly, one where I live now. In the first city (not coincidentally, the one I left), I got heckled and catcalled every single damn time I left the house (and I mean every single time, it was sort of an ongoing challenge to see if I could have any effect by dress or manner. Wearing headphones seemed to be the best- I still got yelled at by as many guys, but they tended to give up sooner if they thought I couldn’t hear). Living there, yeah, any guy who spoke to me without a good reason was someone to be wary of.
Where I live now, it’s pretty common, though far from universal, to nod or say hi when passing, or when sharing a bus shelter or something. A simple hi, or ‘lovely weather’ type comment is far more likely to simply be a friendly comment here, so I’m far more likely to react as such. I’m not saying we don’t get catcallers, but they’re rarer, and mainly in certain areas, which again I walk through with headphones on.
Nodding, smiling, and saying hi to strangers isn’t polite.* The proof of this lies in the fact that if you didn’t do it, no one would notice or care, whereas when you do do it, you place an onus on others to respond–and placing an onus on people when you don’t have to is the very definition of impolite.
*By this I don’t mean to say it’s always impolite. I mean it is not made necessary or in any sense obligatory by politeness.
We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on that regard. I understand that everyone has their own background, upbringing, mileage may vary, but this is just one of the most jaw-dropping statements I’ve seen.
It can be seen as impolite to smile at people? Seriously, if that’s the mindset of people in this thread, then it’s just gonna have to be a friendly and amicable impasse.
What I referred to was the act of “nodding, smiling and saying hi to strangers.”
Yes, it can be impolite to do this. And also, in most public contexts, it is never necessary to do so in order to be polite.
The problem with politeness is that it’s just a method that can be used to show respect, but some people conflate it with respect, as if they’re one and the same thing.
Hence you have those guys in the video who are surprised and annoyed when the woman doesn’t react to what they say, even those times it’s couched in polite language. They were being polite, and therefore necessarily respectful; what they were doing or saying or what their intentions were or, crucially, why the woman in question ignored them and that she* chose* to ignore them didn’t matter to them at all; they were being respectful, because they used the right words.
At the end of the day respectfulness is about thinking of other people and not just yourself. Politeness is one way to show respect, but it isn’t respect, and when it’s used so as to try and transform disrespect into something more socially acceptable it fails.
The most hurtful, harmful, unpleasant, disgusting things in the world are often spoken in a sentence alongside the politest, most on-the-surface-reasonable language. Just look at politicians.
I find it amazing that anyone could possibly disagree with this. A smile, a nod and a “hello” in passing is about as benign as any human interaction can be.
Once again, I’m not defending the guys in the video. I find what they did to be offensive and reprehensible.
In the “smiling, nodding and saying hi” situation, at no point has either party stopped their motion in walking by. Hell, when I was at the supermarket today, it happened to me more than a handful of times. Nobody obstructed my path, tried to corner me, or anything of the sort. It’s just an acknowledgement. Nothing more, nothing less.
Some of the replies seem to characterize it as something more. I understand that different areas have different protocols and social customs, but from what I’ve learned part of it is based on the energy (for lack of a better word) you put out there. Contrary to what EE might think, people in DC are friendlier than he gives them credit. Oftentimes, people would be the “initiator,” despite his characterization of the “small town rube who goes to the big city and doesn’t know how to function amongst the civilized folk.”
Not if someone were clearly not interested in being talked to.
Have you never been in the kind of mood where people trying to be friendly makes it worse? I know I have. And it’s been obvious from my body language.
Unfortunately that innocent ‘acknowledgement’ is indistinguishable from the ‘initiator’ who needs nothing more than eye contact, or a smile, to become that guy that deserved a punch in the throat. He’s following you onto the subway because he thinks he sees an in.
Those girls you see, that y’all want to say, ‘Smile Beautiful’ to, as an innocent comment, good chance she just shook off some creeper who took a glance his way, or a smile on her face, as a signal that she’s interested.
So how many times a day should I react graciously with a nod or smile, before I get to be a stone cold bitch and say, ‘How about you just ring up my order/let me get in my car/on this bus/go back to reading your paper and leave me the hell alone, douchebag!’?
Because even if she’s been dealing with this crap at every turn, anyone who sees her shoot down douche number 12, IS going to think her a stone cold bitch, for bruising his delicate ego.
And that’s bullshit!
Excuse me - are you being sane and rational in the BBQ Pit?
You know that’s not a social norm here, right?
For the record, I agree that statements such as “Smile, beautiful” and things of that nature are inappropriate (and creepy as hell) as well.
How many is “enough,” and how do you know?
Why is your rule the default one? Why can’t we adopt the mirror image: if you know women that object, don’t say anything to them, but otherwise feel free.
Who are you responding to? Someone in this thread suggested that you owed some sort of response? Who was that?
Sorry, but this reasoning creates a situation in which a tiny fraction of the population creates the social norm, and I don’t agree that’s the way.
It’s inconceivable to regard any serious harm or trauma is delivered by a brief nod and the word, “Morning.” And I am convinced the strong majority of people would not mind it or regard it as objectionable.
Exactly the opposite! It is you who is arguing that the desires of the so-called “friendly” types should create the social norm!
But that aside, I am not arguing, really, that anyone’s desires should dictate the norm. I am pointing out that you, as an individual, can choose to either do a thing which makes some people uncomfortable, or refrain from doing it where so refraining will not make anyone uncomfortable.
Why would you choose the former over the latter?
Why insist on imposing an obligation on others when you have no right to do so?
Again, if the person hasn’t made eye contact with you or in some way acknowledged you, as they walk past, then they have thereby communicated to you that they are not here for an interaction with you. This means that if you begin an interaction, you are insisting on something they have communicated they do not want. Why would you do this?
Oh for fuck’s sake - never been to Ireland, have you? :dubious:
It’s not really complicated. When a ‘friendly hello’ is really saying ‘PAY ATTENTION TO ME FOR A MINUTE’, then yeah, it’s harassment…and that’s mostly what I saw in that video.
That’s interesting, I suppose, but I am already in agreement that most of the things in the video are objectionable.
How about the scenario I am describing?