And, like I said, you’re not a special snowflake and don’t get to dictate how people interact with other people. Because that’s what you are doing. You are a stranger in this scenario. The only way to make sure I don’t do it to you is to make sure I never do it.
You also might want to get that social anxiety looked into. I know the exact feeling. It’s bullshit, and the world does not have to accommodate it.
Yes, Kimstu, at a minimum.
I certainly don’t expect an acknowledgement, any more than if I hold the door for someone. A person is free to ignore such a greeting or gesture without any remarks from me.
So, I guess you’re surprised.
Why do it if I don’t expect anything? What an odd question – it almost assumes someone’s actions always expect something in return. I do it because it seems to fit social norms as a pleasant thing to do. It requires no response.
And Frylock. 
No, although I do reserve a deferential “Ma’am,” for women and not men.
So I don’t generally use a different tone, but sometimes use a different word.
What does that imply?
The tower of enlightenment Scott Adams has a take on the video:
The move thing is usually a bit of an unreasonable demand, but on the other hand. Why live there if it is such a horrible place? They could move to Stockholm or some such place where people are visible uncomfortable to interact in any way with strangers, or even to be in the same general vicinity. But Stockholm isn’t New York, and perhaps one of the things that makes NY such a vibrant and dynamic city (and Stockholm not) is part of what makes strangers also contact you on the street in sometimes inappropriate ways. Perhaps it would be possible to change NY to be more like Stockholm, but then it wouldn’t be the NY that so many people love.
Also, in Iraq/Syria Islamists are busy enslaving underage girls to be used for sex concubines. But here’s a video with some guys saying good morning to a woman on the street – important stuff.
Or maybe you should just mind your own business, like I was doing.
But the thing is, a lot of people aren’t so blase. Some people don’t expect reciprocation. Some people do.
“You’re not going to speak?! How rude.” I never heard this when I lived in the Great White North. I hear it frequently in the South (and I’ve thought it myself).
I can see what Frylock is saying even though I wouldn’t go to his extreme. People, on the whole, do NOT like to be construed as rude. But they also don’t like to go against social convention. If you insist on sticking to your way without respecting the norm around you, you risk rubbing people the wrong way. So why would you do this? If you’re only doing something because it makes you feel good, that is selfish–the very opposite of “polite”.
I agree with Kimstu too. It really is impolite to attract attention to yourself out in public if it’s clear someone doesn’t want to give you any attention. Is it the absolute height of rudeness? No. But if you and a bunch of other people get caught doing it on a video, be prepared to receive criticism about it.
As usual, you’re arguing over relatively minor points to distract from something we should all be 100% agreement about. Those guys were acting rudely. If you don’t act like those guys, then you are in the clear. Saying “hello” in a culture where that practice is the norm is not even in the same universe as what those guys were doing.
On the contrary, I’m doing it because it’s the social norm. A few people may be rubbed the wrong way, but it’s they that have expectations that lie outside the social norm, not I.
I agree the the majority of actions captured on that recording are rude.
But despite your best attempt to harmonize your position with those of others, the fact remains that there is a difference of opinion as to whether the behavior I describe puts me “in the clear.” We’re all agreed that the recording captures unacceptable behavior. But it also kickstarted a discussion on a comparatively benign practice, one which not all commentators agree upon. That may be a minor point, but since all participants are in agreement on the major point (except the OP, I admit, but I feel his views may be safely disregarded) then discussing the minor points seems appropriate.
I don’t know how many times I have to say this…
IF YOU ARE IN A CULTURE WHERE “SPEAKING” IS THE NORM, THEN YOU ARE IN THE CLEAR.
Neither Frylock or Kimstu’s posts would seem to disagree with you on this. Even if a person’s body language suggest they don’t want to be bothered, you saying “hello” to her/him would be universally interpreted as a innocent reflex, not you being a jerk. However, you would be a jerk if you tried to engage that person further.
You and maybe two other posters are the only ones who are acting like this complicated calculus. Everyone else seems to understand how “hello” can be acceptable in one instance and inappropriate in another.
I’ve never heard a woman complain about people simply saying “hello” in passing. Perhaps I surround myself with intelligent, non-hypersensitive women, but my experience shows me that women know the difference between harrassing behaviors and innocuous social custom. I know that I do. Does your experience differ from mine? Have you ever overheard a woman wishing the population as a whole would cease exchanging pleasantries? Or have you heard her complaining about guys acting like the men did in that video?
Because it seems to me you are being the stereotypical Bricker yet again by pretending you don’t understand something that is really basic and obvious.
I completely agree.
Kimstu? Frylock? Do you agree with what monstro says above?
Here is the thing, though. This doesn’t just happen to women. Go to China, and people are going to yell dumb stuff at you on the street. Go to Africa- it’ll blow your mind how every damn person feels compelled to comment that you are white and you exist in space. Or be a minority here, and enjoy the dumb shit people say to minorities. Try hearing “Oh, do you know Kung Fu?” like it’s the most clever thing in the world. I’m sure it happens to the disabled. It happens to anyone who is visibly “different” or in the outgroup, and for whatever reason is not likely to call you out on it.
Another thing to notice- send a woman to Istanbul or Cairo or Delhi, and the “stupid stuff men yell at me meter” is going to break. Go to Helsinki or Amsterdam, and you are unlikely to hear even a peep. Adjusted for general cultural extraversion. the amount of street harassment women get is a direct correlation to how that society treats women as a whole. The stuff that people yell in NYC (or wherever) is not some different thing. It’s on the same continuum.
All of which implies this isn’t just a failed mating attempt. This is one manifestation of a bigger issue.
It’s a way of marking territory. Of saying “this is my space and I’m going to remind you that you don’t belong here.” It’s a way of reminding people that they are different. And that is a form of asserting dominence.
(And no, not “all men do it” you whiny git. Do all men yell dumb shit at women on the street? Of course not. Just the obnoxious ones.)
My children know the correct response to this. It is “Yes, I do” and then kick them hard on the kneecap.
[QUOTE=Bricker]
I’ve already shared that I have visited NYC as a tourist many times, and I do nod and say hello to passersby of both genders.
[/QUOTE]
You must have gone to a different New York from me. I was riding the subway there, it was crowded. I stood up, touched my hat, and said to the lady standing near me, “Would you like to sit down, ma’am?” and she looked at me as if I had just announced my intention of eating her liver.
Regards,
Shodan
This video has made the rounds but I didn’t actually have the chance to watch it until seeing it here. My first three thoughts:
[ol]
[li]A significant number of the “hey” / “good evenings” / etc. are just bums about to ask for money.[/li][li]How many men do you walk past in NYC over ten hours? Would five thousand be a good guess?[/li][li]Neither of the above points are to say there isn’t a problem - just that we are now working on the long tail of it.[/li][/ol]
In the DC metro I’ve learned that it’s acceptable to offer one’s seat to pregnant women and the elderly, but that’s it.
Maybe next time try it without gesturing toward your face.
Darn feminists.
Regards,
Shodan
Your phrasing is poor, so I’m not certain what you mean, but it’s obvious that there are people who have issues with what she did.
I’m sorry, I don’t believe this. I know that means there’s no real way to proceed in the conversation.
Not quite–if the body language says the person doesn’t want to be bothered, then the reflexive “hello,” while it may be excusable in many cases as a habit, is nevertheless an imposition.