As someone who grew up in the South, whose family’s arrival in North America pre-dates the American Revolution, who has direct descendants who served in the Confederate Army, who went to high school with a guy who wrapped himself in the battleflag and shot himself on a civil war battle field; I can tell you that the only people I knew who displayed the battle flag were absolute racists. They would talk about cultural heritage and blah blah blah, but ultimately they thought it was funny to use PC language against people.
Here are the facts: the civil war was about slavery; the battleflag is a racist symbol, and if the South rises again, it would get its ass kicked; again.
Add to this the bonus that when your slaves breed, they make new slaves for you!
All of this is again simply dodging the issue by ignoring that slavery is back there as the reason for all of these other issues. The economic difference wasn’t simply that the South was agricultural and stagnant; it was an agricultural economy based on the labor of millions of slaves. Then there is this ‘cultural’ issue which nobody can seem to ever be able to explain what, exactly it is. This culture was also an outgrowth of a society that based its existance on the use of millions of slaves.
Sorry, but there’s a misstatement of history here that needs correction.
The North was not demanding that the South “yield up their slaves” prior to the war. Abolitionists were in a distinct minority and while an annoyance were not a real threat (as the John Brown affair showed). Southern leaders were dismayed by the idea that slavery was showing signs of being a dying institution (notably, in regard to new states entering the Union), saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to precipitate a conflict by violently seceding. If the South hadn’t taken this action, there would have been intensifying pressure on it to end slavery, but this likely wouldn’t have come about for many years.
You don’t need to apologize for having an opinion, even though it is wrong and supported by little more than inflamed rhetoric about prisons, authoritarianism run amok, and thought police persecutions. The students remain free to have their own thoughts, and even express them. If they do so in a civil, thoughtful, and respectful manner. While a flag sticker in the parking lot is at the far end of the spectrum of overprotection, your viewpoint goes even further the opposite direction.
Well, I was just proffering a SCOTUS decision showing that schools have been able to limit behavior outside the classroom. Since a parking lot is outside the classroom, I was suggesting that there does seem to be some ground on which the school can stand to ban a bumper sticker or flag in said parking lot. Sorry if I misunderstood your post, though.
Given the rebellious nature of teenagers I think it would behoove the school to talk the kid into removing it because the obvious result will be a plastering of bumper stickers on all the teachers cars or a redesign of the flag so that it is not the flag but still recognizable in some fashion. The school board will dedicated itself into redefining the image until they’ve banned every logo and color scheme from the planet.
On Friday, I saw a parent’s truck at school. It was in our parking lot, and there were at least four different confederate flag bumper stickers, including one that said, “I have a dream,” above a picture of the White House flying a Confederate flag. It’s pretty hard to come up with a nonracist interpretation of that one (although this being the straight dope I guarantee someone will try).
I wonder: do parents at a school have any more freedom of speech than children at the school? I’m not sure whether this issue has ever been decided by a court. It seems to me that the parent’s truck is at least as disruptive to the learning environment as a child’s would be, with much less justification for being there.
You know, the dudes who say the CSA flag is part of their culture and history as full of BS. OK, it is a part of their history- a very minor part. Georgia (to take one Southern state as an example) was part of England/Great Britain for about 44 year- more than 10 times as long as it was part of the CSA. How many Union Jacks do we see flying in the South?
And, if it is such a critical part of the Souths culture and history, how come we never see any Black Southerners flying one? Lots of Blacks in the South you know, and many of their ancestors were around since before the CSA (not willingly, true, but still)
I admit, we do the same thing out here in San Jose- lots of Mexican flags flying for Cinco de Mayo, even though San Jose was part of Spain for far longer than it was part of Mexico (and in fact, most Califorios didn’t like being under Mexican rule). But at least SJ was part of Mexico for 20 years, five times as long as Georgia was part of the CSA.
Oddly enough, the CSA Constitution specifically protected slavery (“No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed..)”, but did not allow for States to secede! In fact “The Confederate Constitution contains little evidence of an agenda to advance the cause of states’ rights.[4] The constitution contained many of the phrases and clauses which had led to disagreement among the states in the original Union, including a Supremacy Clause, a Commerce Clause (albeit a more restrained version than in the U.S. Constitution, which itself had not been construed nearly as broadly as it is today), and a Necessary and Proper Clause. By these clauses, the Confederate Congress had powers almost identical to those of the U.S. Congress.”
So much for the Civil war being about States Rights.
There’s no doubt that the Confederate flag is not only a part of southern American culture but also American culture as a whole. Almost everyone knows what it is on sight though there are different interpretations as to what it means. I don’t think anyone would disagree that it is a symbol of southern culture but some see it as representing pride while others see it as representing racism. They’re both right.
It’s been a part of the culture for well over a century now. At what point do you decide it’s part of a culture or not? It’s a symbol almost all of us recognize whether we’re southern or not.
Odesio
It doesn’t make any real difference if it is part of a culture or not - speech is protected in the USA. Not just non-offensive speech - all speech, especially political or religious speech.
All this stuff about diversity and how important it is - until someone says something I disagree with.
Ludacris was wearing it ironically, of course, but I have seen the Confederate flag reworked with African nationalist colors and worn by black Southerners like so. (In fact, Ludacris was wearing that style of flag under the outfit linked above.) There was a whole clothing line based on this idea about 15 years ago.
So yeah, even black Southerners sort of struggle with (and then come back to) the Confederate flag when looking for a visual symbol to represent their Southern-ness.
Would it be nice if there were another shorthand symbol for the South? Yeah, but there isn’t.
That’s the left-wing for you. Always huge champions of freedom of speech and freedom of expression - until someone speaks or expresses something that goes against what they agree with. THEN it becomes “offensive” and must be censored.
Political correctness is slowly chipping away at the First Amendment.
Cite? Cite a single example of the “left wing,” or anybody on this board wanting the government to “censor” any speech they don’t like.
Cite? Give an example of a 1st Amendment right you’ve lost to “political correctness.”
This particular case doesn’t have shit to do with the 1st Amendment, it’s about what schools have a right to restrict on school property. The Supreme Court has already ruled that students do not have absolute 1st Amendment rights in school, so this “left wing political correctness” angle is complete bullshit.
The right to display symbols of the Confederacy on public school property.
So your answer to “first amendment rights are being eroded” is to point out that students don’t have any first amendment rights in the first place? And that’s a good thing? Is it just because they’re under 18 or what? Would you accept arbitrary restrictions on your speech and expression?
What if 50 years from now it’s backwards: It is just as unpopular in 2059 to NOT be a racist as it is in 2009 to BE a racist. Would you support restricting students’ rights to wear “I’m black and I’m proud” t-shirts and “Equality” bumper stickers due to them inciting anger and not being ‘civil’? Or is that some sort of straw man?
