Ok, well since I don’t consider masculinity to be a toxic phenomenon, asserting and sharing your masculinity doesn’t sound too bad. In any case the group was private. People should be allowed to do what the hell they want in their privacy. Only thing to consider is whether a private Facebook group can really be considered private.
If you don’t want to talk about the official legality of it you shouldn’t introduce the legality of it into the discussion: nobody was talking about the legality of it before you brought it up.
Why is that not fair? Why should the college give these dudes the tools and opportunity to commit the rape they’re talking about committing?
A question I asked earlier, and I know it’s legal but bear with me: if one of these guys sexually assaulted an employee or patient, and a lawsuit resulted, could the school be a defendant in the lawsuit?
Last week on SDMB I talked about invading, pillaging and raping in England, as well as burning down monasteries. If I had been a dentist at the school should I be thrown out lest they should become participant in any future invasion and pillaging of England and raping English lasses I had talked about committing?
Could? Don’t know. Should? No. And if they could, you should change your laws. Laws are your servant, not the other way round.
Are you in school to be put in charge of armed forces near enough to England to effectuate your “plan”? If so, your professional judgment could be certainly be called into question for making such comments.
These “men” are in training to become dentists where they will, presumably, be in put into a position where they could effectuate their little rape fantasies if they ever decide to.
Actually, my question is whether, if I answer you, you’ll turn around and say you’re not concerned with the military aspects of the question and that that’s a difference between Americans and Europeans. Here you go again, bringing up something completely irrelevant.
If an accounting student, on a private forum, talks about how easy it’d be to embezzle money; if a police student, on a private forum, makes jokes about the joys of beating up hookers; if a maid service employee, on a private forum, talks about stealing from clients–in all these cases, I’d fully support the school or company separating the student or employee. All of these positions require significant trust, and someone who talks like this is breaking the trust.
Rape fantasies are really a different deal. I honestly wouldn’t mind if these guys were independently posting on a message board dedicated to a sexual fetish, assuming they were not referencing real-life individuals or crossing over into actually planning a crime. Kink is what it is.
But this isn’t about a personal sexual fantasy. Indeed, it’s only marginally about sex. It’s a bunch of people working each other up to see who can be the most crude or outrageous. They could be focusing on race, sexual orientation, or any other “out group.” Women just happened to be what was handy, and apparently some people think sexual violence is hilarious.
And frankly, this could have also been fine. I work in a high-stress field that lets off steam with very, very dark humor. It’s just a part of some fields.
But these gentlemen broke the fundamental rule of dark humor in the workplace-- what happens at Happy Hour stays at Happy Hour. It’s one thing to make an off-the-cuff edgy joke, and quite another to hold an extended dialogue in the cold light of day. And they had the poor judgement to commit words on paper in their own name, which is just a totally different thing than a whispered joke late at night. Writing this stuff down in your own name shows a dangerous acceptance of what is being said-- as if they felt this stuff was perfectly normal or acceptable.
Finally, they referenced real people, and those people found out. I don’t care if they thought it was private or not. Saying socially unacceptable things is a risk, and sometime people get called on it. Badmouthing clients is an age old tradition, but sometimes it gets overheard and someone gets fired. That’s just how it is.
TLDR, the problem here was not talking about sex or making edgy jokes. The problem is they made spectacularly poor choices in doing so, and proved themselves to have extremely poor judgement and professionalism.
That wasn’t clear to me. I formed a supposition that in Canada, the freedom of speech/expression provision is the 2nd amendment (or whatever term they use for “amendment”), but I haven’t had a chance to look it up yet.
Yeah, I looked that up too before making my snarkybutt comment but only a little; I figured since I was just making fun of him for a silly mistake, if I was wrong, I’d deserve whatever double-mockery he gave me in return :).
Section 2, subsection b, if I’m reading it right:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html
The entire Charter (circa 1982) is an amendment to the original constitution, which was more of just an administrative document detailing the layout of the Dominion of Canada.
Let’s avoid homophobic slurs in this forum.
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness;]
Rune. Honeybun. Dear heart. Sweetie pie.
[/QUOTE]
And let’s avoid snarky language that is going to invite that sort of reply.
[ /Moderating ]
No. You are mixing up two different concepts. The government has no right to censor your speech. It’s a necessity for a democracy to function. People have to be able to share ideas.
But this is a private institution. So while the government cannot give consequences, a private citizen can.
What you are saying would mean that, if someone came into my house and called my mother a whore, I would be unable to kick them out of my house. If I do, freedom of speech is challenged, and therefore democracy itself.
These guys said a bunch of things that a lot of people find reprehensible. The school does not have to defend them or honor them by giving them a degree. Expulsion is perfectly fine.
We’ve let this type of stuff go for far too long. This isn’t a one off joke that is trying to be edgy. It is, as you admit, misogyny. And it was at least partially directed towards fellow students. This is a grossly bad thing, not just boys being boys.
Dalhousie University is a public institution.