Should dentistry students be expelled for 'sexually violent', 'misogynistic' posts on Facebook?

Great Debates
1

Here is the story. Other sites have a bit more (or less).

In brief, some final year Dentistry students at Dalhousie University (in Halifax, Canada) are ‘alleged’ to have made a series of ongoing ‘hateful’ and ‘sexually violent’ posts onto the Facebook page of a group they formed. The group is called, “Class of DDS 2015 Gentlemen”.

As far as I can determine, no direct threats of sexual violence were made (i.e. no posts saying to Mary Jones, “Mary, you bitch, we’re gonna drug you and then fuck you”), although at least two female students were specifically named.

Most of the offensive stuff was along the lines of “Who would you hate fuck?” The ‘gentlemen’ were then given names to vote on. They also ‘joked’ about using chloroform on women.

The University president is now talking about expulsion, and that takes me to the point of this OP. Is expulsion an appropriate punishment for the acts committed?

Me? No, I don’t think the culprits should be expelled. For one thing, it was clear that they were ‘joking’. In my opinion, there were no criminal threats. I mean, no one talks on Facebook, over years, about a crime they’re going to commit, especially as a member of a group where witnesses abound and you never know who really feels the way they claim to feel about women.

So, in my opinion, no, there was no criminal threat. On the other hand, sure it’s hateful, misogynistic, etc. Absolutely. But that’s their right, as it is for everybody else. No matter how vulgar, hateful, offensive, hurtful, etc., their speech is protected (and, in my mind, a key test of any democracy, and of its ostensibly ‘free press’, is the degree of protection afforded to precisely this type of speech).

Finally, with respect to expulsion, I would say that sentencing those ‘gentlemen’ to lose three and a half years of their lives seems awfully disproportionate. Agreed they were assholes and morons and, yes, misogynistic too. But those are thought crimes. And the sentence for such crimes is not to have the perpetrators forfeit years of hard work. At the risk of sounding a bit glib, ‘they’ve already been suffering for their actions and this is going to haunt them for the rest of their lives’.

2

I would punish the students, but my proposed punishment would be far, far short of expulsion. I understand the free speech argument, but that only applies to government control. Any organization (such as a college, or a club) may insist that their members follow certain socially acceptable conduct.

3

Expel them. Then it will haunt them for even longer. If they were kids in high school they’d be expelled, or suspended, here in the US that is. No ethical would-be professional “jokes” about using chloroform on women.

4

Um - 1st amendment protections are for the government - not private institutions.

I’m not sure what amendment it is (if any) in Canada – or if it works the same way - my understanding is it doesn’t apply in the UK.

My personal opinion is people are allowed their own thoughts and opinions, but they shouldn’t be dragging other people into it. If they are using the name of the university or the name of students there - that is taking it too far.

Students should have to worry about others posting shit about them online - joking or not.

Of course they should actually be able to tell who did this - and not just guess - cause this would be very easy to post and make it look like someone else.

That being said - if a person who went to school there really did post this - and there is some sort of violation of a student code or something (which I’m guessing there is) - then they should be disciplined. I’m not sure if I think expulsion is necessary, but this isn’t the 1970s - people should know this isn’t a brilliant idea.

5

I wouldn’t expel them, but I’d consider disinviting them to any graduation ceremonies and removing any photographs of them from school records (leaving the legally-required bare-minimum dry text records). They’ll get their diplomas in the mail, don’t contact us again, bye.

6

I wouldn’t bet on that. Certainly we’ve seen more than a few cases over the years of people who posted Facebook/YouTube/etc. about crimes they’d already committed. Sometimes they even published video of the crime.

7

Do you want these guys to be anyone’s dentist? I don’t.

8

Expulsion is too far.

I’m sure even the world’s greatest doctor has made an inappropriate joke before.

9

I’d unfriend them.

10

That actions have gone without consequence in the past does not mean they never should, or that they shouldn’t always have done so.

No parent buys “everybody’s doing it!”

11

First off, it’s in damn Canada, so anyone mentioning the US version of the 2nd amandment needs to report to remedial geography right away.

Second off, even in the US, bringing up the first amendment in this instance shows no understanding of what the first amendment means. So there’s that. We need an award to pass on to every poster who fucks up this basic knowledge.

Hmm, “sexually violent, misogynistic public statements” from people who want to be dentists? Apparently the certification requirements to become a licensed dentist in Canada includes the requirement " is of good moral character and a fit and proper person to be registered as a dentist".

Yeah, I’d say they fail that.

12

Here’s what Dal’s University Calendar has to say on the matter. [
[QUOTE=DALHOUSIE UNIVERSITY REGULATIONS]

II. Code Of ConductC. Offences[INDENT]1. Offences Against Persons[INDENT]a) No student shall assault another person sexually, or threaten any other person with sexual assault or commit an act of sexual harassment toward another person.
b) No student shall otherwise assault another person, threaten any other person with bodily harm, or cause any other person to fear bodily harm.[/INDENT][/INDENT]

[/QUOTE]
](http://www.dal.ca/academics/academic_calendars/Dentistry_Law_Medicine_Calendar_2014_2015/University_Regulations.html#I15)Important note: this is in the domain of the Senate Discipline Committee, not the University President (Richard Florizone); while he’s not a member of Dal’s SDC, he is still entitled to his opinion/fumings.

13

This is more than inappropriate jokes. Those are when you are in a small party of people.

These morons did it online with enough information to lead directly back to them and their school. That’s the part that deserves expulsion. They demeaned fellow students and harmed the reputation of the school.

It shows idiocy on SUCH a level… seriously, you are allowed to be a troglodyte but you are expected not to do it in public.

You have to expel them. At the very least, bar them from any school functions and graduation ceremonies.

14

As the OP’er, I’ll take the award.

Yes, despite your patronizing post and the assumptions therein, I know full well a) the difference between the US and Canada wrt to ‘free speech’ and b) the difference between private and government.

But what you failed to appreciate is that the group’s Facebook page is exactly that - the group’s. So, within the space of that page, I would have thought they can say (and think) what they want. More importantly, to suggest that they be penalized for what they said in their own page seems to me to violate the essence of freedom of speech. (OTOH, if Facebook wanted to kick them off, well, fine. It’s FB’s site and they make the rules governing it).

D’ya follow? Or should I use simpler words.

ETA: “Free speech” as I was using it means that people should be free to say and think what they want so long as they don’t threaten, libel, etc. I would have thought that applies to Facebook postings as well.

15

Private page or public page?

If this is a private page, then slap the wrists and move on.
It this is a public page, then they are dumb asses who need to learn that there are times to talk and times to shut up.

I wouldn’t prevent them from becoming a dentist though.

16

ITA x 1000. If they’re saying things like this on a forum where they can be easily identified, what are they saying AND DOING in private?

I had a few classes with dental students, and they were definitely a breed unto themselves. Remember those kids in high school that nobody liked, but people hung around with them because it was cool to be seen with them? You guessed it. And several of my classmates said they’d overheard a few of them say, “I sure am glad I’m not in pharmacy, because the girls don’t look like good pussy.”

:eek: :mad: :smack:

The year after I graduated, a black female freshman student said that she was getting racist, threatening e-mails. You guessed it - she was sending them to herself. She was expelled, and IIRC arrested too.

17

People who post controversial or inappropriate content or opinions disagreeing with my social political orthodoxy should lose their jobs and education. Campaigns should be organized to pressure colleges and corporations to do this, if they won’t take action on their own. Walmart Greeter is too good for 'em.

A surprising number of online liberal activists actually believe this. Or maybe not so surprising.

18

This thread made me think of this.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17966355#post17966355

19

It’s interesting, Marshmallow, that you think talk about who to kill and rape constitutes merely a disagreement with my social or political orthodoxy.

20

I’m fairly unsympathetic to feminism in general, so when I looked at this thread I was expecting to be sympathetic to the dental students. Maybe they said something like “Women are less apt than men to make great medical discoveries”, or “More women will be happier being homemakers”, which some might consider ‘mysogynistic’, but I’d consider well within reasonable discourse.
Instead, they were advocating- jokingly or not- violent sex crimes against women. That’s not ‘disagreeing with social orthodoxy’, it’s advocating a serious felony. I don’t see why they shouldn’t face consequences.