How the former (even if true) has anything logically to do with the later is beyond me.
For the person involved, of course it is a big deal. On a society-wide level? General false accusations are maybe some kind of deal. People in the modern justice system serving years behind bars for false rape accusations? No. Not a big deal- at least, not a bigger deal than any other false accusation.
About two people die a year due to vending machines. It’s a big deal to them and their families, of course. But no, vending machine safety is not as big a deal as, say, car safety.
Ok, that sounds reasonable. Sorry that I implied you weren’t taking the issue seriously.
My only equivocation is it is worse to go to prison under a false rape conviction than it is a false burglary or even murder or aggravated assault charge. At least those last crimes have some kind of “respect” in prison, or, so I have been told. Rapists, I seem to understand, are not.
Note in the quote I’m referring to people serving time. Not just a false accusation, but a trial leading to a conviction and time served.
I’m sure it happens. Miscarriages of justice happen and there are people behind bars for all kinds of crimes they didn’t commit. People frame each other for murder. Drug dealers set up their partners. Charged communities all too often rush to convict.
But given the low conviction rate of rape, in particular, this just isn’t happening regularly.
Ok, well, yes, I’ll agree with you. (I do).
But what about this category:
A 16 year old girl who gets pregnant or caught having sex and is embarrassed and afraid and makes up a story. Or, alcohol/drugs are involved or a woman with some type of mental health issue makes a claim of some type of coercion in a date rape situation. I’m - not - saying we don’t take such claims seriously. What I am saying, is how do we, as a society, a society, you and me, not just the courts, handle or think of these claims which - may - be in limited circumstances, exaggerated claims?
Sigh You do realize that your “personal feelings” are irrelevant in the real world, right?
I agree very much with this, and I want to thank Sven for phrasing it better than I could. I am actually a pretty active advocate for the wrongly convicted. I have given time and money to The Innocence Project, and they have my name and number if they ever need a volunteer interpreter in my area (I have an endorsement in court interpreting).
But I do not think rape is worse, except for the sex offender registry, and I am on record of objecting to that. Men who treat women decently should not have to worry about vindictive accusations, and even men who treat women like shit but don’t rape them should not worry about false convictions. I have yet to see false conviction that did not involve the police leeching onto a subject and coercing a confession; rarely, a subject had the misfortune of looking like a security camera subject, but I saw an interview with one guy who even admitted himself that he thought the picture looked like him (and he didn’t get convicted because he had an alibi).
Stop worrying about vindictive women. Worry about unethical police and plain bad luck.
So then the Israeli woman who says she feels that she’s been raped after she finds out the man she had a one night stand with was actually an Arab not a Jew as she had originally thought, has been the victim of a rape in your opinion?
Would you give the same benefit to men?
For example a man gets really drunk and wind up having sex with a gay man which he’d never have done if sober. Upon sobering up and realizing what he did, he believes he’s been raped. Do you agree that he’s been raped?
If not, why the double standard?
It’s also worth noting that there are false accusations of all crimes and I’m not sure that rape is actually more common than others.
IIRC, one study suggested around 10% of all reported car thefts wound up being false.
Moreover, I remember one Slate writer, I think it was Amanda Marcotte, linked to showing that most of the people who did falsely report such claims to the police, probably around 6% of all reported rapes, were not done by vindictive ex-girlfriends or anything like that, but usually by disturbed women seeking attention who often didn’t even accuse anyone in particular and if they did eventually accuse a specific person it was in an attempt to firm up a collapsing story.
That certainly seems largely the case of Tawana Brawley, the woman in the Duke Lacrosse case, and of course the infamous “Vicky” in the UVA case.
Real life is not the movie Gone Girl.
That’s not a good example. That guy really did rape her, and was convicted of a lesser charge because it’s what they could prove easily without the (very traumatized) victim’s testimony. It may have been something like a plea bargain.
That was my point.
Yup. A common diagnosis is Borderline Personality Disorder. Their rape stories usually happened long enough ago in the past that whomever they tell is unlikely to suggest going to the police, and if the story mentions going to the police, they are disbelieved, lose her rape kit, or something like that, and it often happened in another country.
Horseshit.
Sabbar Khashour had consensual sex with a woman who believed he was a Jew because he introduced himself by his nickname, Dudu, which sounded Hebrew and therefore was convicted of “rape by deception” because she thought he was Jewish.
Only a bigot would approve of his being jailed and he’s only in jail because Israel is an openly racist country.
Now, since you’ve made it clear that you think regardless of the facts or evidence if a woman feels that she’s been raped, she’s been raped even if it’s merely because she’s a racist pissed off that she found out she’d had sex with someone of the wrong nationality, please answer my question.
If a man who insists he’s straight, gets really drunk and wind up having sex with a gay man which he’d never have done if sober and then, upon sobering up and realizing what he did, believes he’s been raped, do you agree that he’s been raped? Or do you feel in having a different standard for men? That if a woman feels she’s been raped, she’s been raped, but you don’t feel the same is true for men.
Or, once more, would you agree that perhaps you jumped ahead of yourself when you said that if someone feels they’ve been raped then they’ve been raped?
Unless its a man wrongly convicted/accused of rape
What about their damaged reputations?
LOL we finally found something to agree on. I agree 1000%.
No. my argument is that penalizing false rape accusations the same as actual rape will create a reluctance to report actual rape (given how the system is already currently disposed to disbelieving/dismissing/ignoring real rape reports). By all means give an annoyance fine for false reporting. If it goes to trial, by all means use the existing penalties for perjury, should it turn out the accuser is lying. If, by some rare chance, the falsely accused is imprisoned, by all means throw both perjury and the civil lawsuit system at them.
There are existing mechanisms to deal with false criminal accusations, and I judge them sufficient to deal with the pandemic* of false rape accusations we’re currently experiencing, that has all the MRAs up in arms.
- sarcasm alert
Yes, you are. Not intentionally, but that is the outcome of your and the OP’s stances.
I’d give a shit for that person. I wouldn’t give a shit for the magnitude of the non-problem, is what I mean.
It’s like - I give a shit for the pain of people caught in volcanic eruptions. I do not give a shit for the magnitude of the problem of volcanic eruptions as a threat to human life vs, say, war or malaria or global warming.
The OP did that, and you continue to do so by supporting the OP’s thesis.
You think 25% of women will lie about rape?
OP hasn’t been back in to this thread since starting it…
You’re confusing rapists with paedophiles.
If you can - prove - they were lying, then it needs to be the same penalty. Like the Duke case for example.
I’m not a MRA
Like I said, the lex talionis is an archaic Bronze Age jurisprudence, and no, i don’t want it revived. Current perjury sentences and civil redress are sufficient.
Or elaborate - why does it “need” to be the same, other than pure revenge motivations.
I didn’t say you were.