Should I forgive these two bullies or not?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

This might be long, so please do bear with me.
For bully one:

So back in HS,(I’m in second year uni) there was this guy who was part of my “friend” circle and he did a lot of uncool things like making gross incest jokes about me and my brother, spoiling star wars for me just because he felt like being a dick and he even stole money from me once and got mad that he got caught. After HS ended,there was a group chat and since he was friends with people I know, he was part of it(like a year ago). There, he once said just because I don’t like those incest jokes doesn’t mean he isn’t going to talk about it, which shows he didn’t show remorse and a few months back, he made one again. This time, I didn’t tolerate his bullying and I stood my ground and instead of apologizing, he just ran away and said he’s ok with being a dick or something. Later, I told him I was pissed off at the mean things he did and he said it was fair and he saw sorry. However, he later once said ‘yeah, I’m an asshole who bullies the f*ck out of people, just like everyone on this chat’, which tells me that he didn’t really feel remorse at all. But recently, he said he realizes how much of a jerk and a bully he was to me and regrets making those incest jokes. So, I’m conflicted on whether or not I should forgive him as I feel like he’s done too much stuff and it’s too late now. What do you think?

Now for bully number two:
I had this friend who I became buddies with. However, we got integrated into this group of people(same one from before) and then, he turned on me and started bullying me by making very gross incest jokes about my brother and I, which really made me upset throughout senior year. After HS ended, there was a group chat to stay in touch and this guy was part of it. He continued even on with those jokes, first time, he laughed off me telling him to stop and second time, he said some stupid stuff like he didn’t want to make the joke and I forced his hand, which is total BS as he’s vicitim blaming. It cooled off for a while until he did it again back in Feb, but I ignored him. Later, I brought up how angry I was at him for his bullying and he said he was sorry I was hurt, but he doesn’t feel bad about what he did, which is a half-hearted apology. When I told him it was hard to get over it, he had the nerve to tell me to 'grow up and get the fck over it." Later on, I brought my grievance and he tells to shut the fck up and that he did everything short of writing a letter to my mother, when he didn’t do anything at all. He dismisses my bullying and says its been a year even though he continued after HS, which makes it less than a year. I was angry at this guy for while and even thought he was a sociopath until he sent me this recently:

“Yo, l want to let you know that I’m sorry with all my heart, I’d hate to think that someone out there is suffering for something that I did while I’m perfectly fine(ish). Same goes to you, I know it’s not all the closure you hoped for but nonetheless for the part I played in making high school unenjoyable for you, I apologize and can only hope you can find peace with yourselves.”
So all in all, should I forgive these two or not?

2

Why do you remain in contact with people like this?

3

If, by “forgive,” you mean let go of the anger and resentment you feel toward them, then I vote Yes, you should. It’ll be a relief not carrying that around any more.

4

[RIGHT][/RIGHT]

Not really. We just happened to be part of a group chat. I blocked them a while back.

5

No. Move on with your life. You’ve already dedicated too much time to it. He admitted to you that he’s a jerk. When someone tells you exactly what they are, believe them. On top of that, it’s clearly not personal, he’s not directing it at you, he’s doing it to everyone, at least that’s what he said, take it at face value. Ignore him, block him on social media, leave group chats he’s part of. Be done with it.

Maybe…
If he, on his own, unprompted (so far as you know) after 1-2 years without any contact from you, apologized. I guess that’s a step in the right direction. However, personally, I would probably just ignore it or say “thanks” and leave it at that. No heartfelt outpouring of emotion. Don’t spill your guts about how much he hurt you over the last 5 years. Just move on. If he’s sincere, he’s likely expecting you to blow it off. And too much back from you, even what I see in your OP, could just put him on the defense, even if he’s just defending what he did in the past or trying to explain how he changed. Just ignore it so you can tell yourself he did it or say ‘thank you’ and hope for the best.

It’s only been a year or two. Like I said, move on with your life. Get through college and those 2 people will mean even less to you. In time you won’t hate them, you just won’t care about them anymore. Learn to ignore them and don’t give them anymore of your time.

6

As the old saying goes, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die from it.

7

I’ve always been unclear on the concept of forgiveness. I went through a breakup with a friend about 4 years ago. Took me about 3 years to stop being hurt by her actions. Is that forgiveness, I don’t know. And I don’t care. What I care about is that it no longer bothers me. If the actions of these 2 bullies still bothers you, then no, don’t accept their apologies or forgive them. If their actions no longer bother you, then fine, move on. But I wouldn’t give them the satisfaction of “forgiving” them.

8

Don’t let jackasses live rent-free in your head. They’re both unpleasant, unrepentant people, so break ties with them and move on. You want to forgive them in the sense that you stop obsessing over the stuff they did, but you don’t need to make nice with them. You don’t need to accept their apologies or hang out with them.

9

Forgive, yes. Let them back into your life, no. You have nothing to gain by being friends with these people.

10

Forgiveness is for you, not for them. If you are no longer in touch with either of them, forgive them, it won’t impact their life in any way that you will be aware of, but it will impact yours.

11

I mean, they did apologize…

12

It’s often used wrongly. The Christian principle, which is also used to my knowledge in secular therapy, means that forgiveness is part of a whole process.

Alice hurts Bob with words or deeds or inaction.

Alice realizes that she did wrong.

Religious: she confesses to a priest.
Secular: she talks to a therapist.
Admitting that she did wrong (I wish I hadn’t done that), discussing what the real cause is (Why did I do that?) and how to not do that in the future.

She apologizes to Bob. If possible, she tries to make amends.
Bob then accepts the apology and forgives her. Or he doesn’t believe she’s sincere, and doesn’t forgive her. Or he feels too hurt to be able to forgive her.

Religious: she does additional penance, and God/ Priest forgives her.
Therapy: She moves on trying to be a better Person.

So without admitting wrong, there can be no real meaningful forgiveness. (And never can somebody demand of the victim “You must forgive her!” No, Bob does not must).

However, there other aspects.

Forgiven, not forgetten: this ties in with how sincere you believe the apology. People who are jerks/ bullies often use an apology for further Manipulation (I’m sorry you got upset - non-pology). It’s good to forgive, but if somebody has been a liar 20 times before, it would be stupid to believe him just because you have forgiven him. They have to earn your trust by acting consistently like a good Person. It’s a difficult Balance because sometimes People do Change, and you don’t want to slam the door in their face, but help them stay on the path of not being a bully.
But others only pretend.

Letting it go: this is not the same as forgiveness, but related. It means you release the worry and Anger from your mind, to save energy and brainspace for nice things.
You do Keep a warning Label around, however, if you ever meet that Person again “Attention, that’s a bully”.

I wonder if the guy who wrote the letter went to AA or similar in the meantime? I think they tell People to apologize and make amends, but not force, because bringing up bad memories can be a new hurt for the victim, which is not the Goal.

13

When you forgive someone, it’s not letting them off the hook, it’s letting yourself off the hook.

You cannot be free of it till you forgive.

14

So, what exactly took place between you and your brother?

15

Yes you should, but you have to understand what that means in the context you have to do it. It’s not a single act but a journey. The former acts have caused you to move in one direction which damaged you a piece at a time, you need to journey back picking up the lost pieces - they act of that is your journey. Don’t have time to go into more now.

16

Ignore them and get a whole lot of gone between you and them? Yes, ASAP.

Forgive them? That’s totally up to you.

17

Nothing, those bullies were just jerks and one was a pervert.

18

Also, I should not try to re establish a friendship right? Too much damage.

19

Why would you?
That’s not entirely a rhetorical question. Do you think there’s something to be gained from re-establishing a friendship? Do you like these people enough, and value them enough, to really want them in your life?

I’m guessing you probably won’t answer with a resounding yes, so yeah, just forget about them. But if I’m wrong and you really do want to be friends with them, then you can seriously consider whether it’s “too much damage,” whether the repentance is sincere enough and the potential for relapse into jerkdom is small enough, etc.

20

I think you should be making the incest with your brother. That’ll show those bullies what for, I betchya!