As gas prices continue to rise, I have come to the realization that driving my car (which can seat 5 people) alone is rather wasteful and inefficient.
My car doesn’t have air conditioning, but that doesn’t really bother me as I just roll down the windows when going fast in hot weather. I’ve been doing this so much I’ve started to enjoy the feeling of the wind rushing past me. Combined with never really carrying anything in the car, I have really questioned why I even need to own a car in the first place.
So I started thinking about how much more practical a motorycycle might be for me, considering I rarely carry passengers/cargo, and like fresh air. A motorcycle would also consume less fuel. So my question is, any advice about learning to drive a motorcycle/buying one? Some of my concerns are the dangers involved in terms of accidents, the cost of insurance, and dealing with bad weather. It is usually pleasant here in California, but we do get the occasional rainy day, and I wonder if I’m better off with a car just in case I have to commute to work during that occasional rainy/stormy day.
I’m also wondering what would be a practical bike to get for a beginner. Cost is also a concern as well.
If you look for any bike that has a semblence of performance, you will find it is plenty costly to run, some fast bikes get ess than 30 to the gallon when pushed hard, in fact most performance machines do somewhat worse than that.
It really depends on how far you ride and what the journey is like, to mix it with traffic you need to be able to keep up and have something extra to get you out of trouble, I’d imagine that means something with at least 400CC and ideally somewhat more than that.
I reckon you could do well to take lessons, and the instructor will advise you what machine would be most suitable.
Something very user friendly and reliable as well as cheap to run would be a Honda CB500, you murricans might have a differant name for them but most dealers would know what I was referring to, a Yamaha 600 Diversion(Seca is the US designation I think) would also be good, or perhaps a Suzuki Bandit 600.
Well, I can just say that I’d never get one. I’ve never really been all that enthusiastic about them, few of my friends have ever been into them, and none of the places I’ve worked have had a lot of people who ride them. And still, I personally knew 5 people who’ve died in motorcycle accidents. Not particularly reckless people, either – most often the accidents were during normal commutes. By comparison, I don’t know anyone who’s died in a car accident.
That proves nothing, of course, but it did stick the idea in my head that they’re just inherently unsafe. Sure, with proper training and responsible driving, you’re fine, but I just don’t see it as worth the risk unless you’re really into motorcycling for its own sake. I don’t see them as “practical” at all.
Considering the number of motorcyclist Dopers, this is like asking a barber if you need a haircut!
L.A. rider here (well, up here now), and long-time motorcylist. I put almost 78,000 miles on my Yamaha XJ600 Seca II in the L.A. area, and about 35,000 on the used Honda CX500 before that (not to mention the various rides I’ve ridden since I was five); so I hope my input will be useful.
First, the insurance issue jumped out at me. My motorcycle insurance has always been considerably less than my car insurance. For liability only, my Seca II cost me $75-$85 per year through Pacific Specialty Insurance. My Yamaha YZF-R1 costs me about $500 per year through GMAC for full coverage. So my shit-hot racer costs less than half of my car insurance.
You’ll be surprised at how easy it is to carry stuff on a bike. I have a rack on the Seca II that’s maybe 7 or 8 inches square. That doesn’t sound like much, but I’ve carried large boxes by putting one end of them over the rear seat and letting the other end hang. It’s amazing what you can do with a couple of bungees! (You do have to watch the weight, of course.) I was able to get my groceries home simply by wearing a day pack.
You mentioned mileage. My Seca II gets about 50-55 mpg, and my R-1 gets about 40. Much better than my Jeep!
And California has a distinct advantage over other states: Lane splitting is legal. (Really, it is; check the CHP FAQs.) So sitting in traffic! Of course, the HOV lanes are also open to us.
Ever try to find a parking place in Hollywood? I can tell you, it’s a lot easier if you’re on a bike! Many places will let you park gratis. For example, I once parked my CX500 at LAX for a couple of days, and it didn’t cost me a thing. (This was a few years ago, so the policy may have changed.) I also parked free downtown. My local cinema (Mann Culver City, FWIW) always let me park the bike free. Other places (non-city/county/government) do charge, but I was often able to park free just by asking them if they’d let me do it.
I’d recommend getting a used bike as your first bike. The “entry fee” will be less than buying a new one. Just make sure that it’s in good condition (take it for a prepurchase inspection) and don’t get a “crotch rocket”. Fast bikes can be dangerous to the beginner. If you want a new bike (factory warranty, known good condition, etc.) you might consider a Honda Nighthawk 750. I know that 750cc sounds too big; but the Nighthawk is a “standard” class bike and shouldn’t be too much after a few rides. A caveat though: I’ve heard that insurance goes way up after 700cc. (My R-1 is 1,000cc and full coverage is twice what it was for my 600cc Seca II for full coverage.) A Nighthawk 750 should go for around $6,000 new.
Yamaha no longer makes the Seca II. They do have a “replacement” though. It’s a much more aggressive bike than the old XJ600, but the dealer told me it’s good for beginners. (And he knew that I have decades of experience, and that I was already buying the R-1.) I don’t know the MSRP or even the model of this 600cc bike, but ISTR that it was in the $6,500 range. Check out Yamaha’s website and look around.
As the pitchman said in Little Big Man, “Every enterprise contains a particle of risk.”
I personally knew one person who was killed in a motorcycle crash, and I saw a dead guy from another one. Both were the fault of car drivers making left turns in front of them. I personally knew two people who were killed in a car wreck. There is a saying among motorcyclists: “Ride as if everyone is out to kill you.” I posted a thread last year about Left Seat Passengers":
I do pay attention to my driving. When I look around, I notice many “zombies” staring blankly ahead. If you ride, you have to remember that there are many, many, LSPs on the road with you. Riders need to stay sharp.
I’m pretty sure that 2003 was the last year for the Honda Nighthawk (CB750), BUT, I was able to get an excellent used one for a song–I picked up a 1991 in almost mint condition (4,000 miles on it) for $2300 last year. It really is a great starter bike, it handles really well and has plenty of power without being too much to handleor too heavy. You can get newer models for a little more ($3,000-4,000) fairly easily, although very little, if anything, changed over the course of its production.
Mine costs $136 a year to insure for liability only.
My brother used to have a dirtbike, and while it probably isn’t like driving a motorcycle on the street, riding the dirtbike around on my dad’s property gave me a vague idea of what it is like to operate a motorcycle. Is weight a big factor on a bike? I’m so used to using a bicycle when I rode the dirtbike I was rather surprised at how heavy it felt. I’m kind of worried about getting crushed underneath a 500+ lb machine :eek:
That’s really awesome how low the insurance is for motorcycles. Though I guess it is because a car is a much bigger hazard to another person (pedestrian) than a motorcycle would be.
How difficult is it to get a license? Is it an apples-oranges comparison in comparing it to getting a car license?
How much/year does a motorcycle usually cost to maintain? Is it cheaper to own a motorcycle than a car?
I don’t know about other states, but in Mississippi the guy at the licensing station told me to ride down the street in front of the highway patrol station. When I didn’t fall off I got a license. Maintenance is not a whole lot less than a car, in my experience. Parts are much higher for some reason, so your oil change, etc will cost about the same even though you use less oil. Additionally, some engines, but not all , require valve adjustment periodically. Almost no car I can think of requires that.
It all depends largely on how much of it you do yourself. If you change the oil and brake pads and whatnot yourself (which are all very easy to do on a bike, much more so than a car), it’s significantly cheaper. Figure an oil change every 3,000 miles will cost you about $20 (moto oil is sometimes a little more expensive). New tires run from $50-150 each (plus $20-25 for mounting), and the interval on those will vary, but you should get at least 10-15,000 miles from a set of tires if you’re not abusing them. Lots of parts are available on the Internet.
As far as getting licensed, it depends on the state, but it’s usually somewhat more difficult than an auto license. Most states require a written test first to obtain a learner’s permit. Depending on the state, learners permits may or may not require you to ride along with a licensed rider.
The moving test is usually something involving very very slow technical maneuvers, which can be much more difficult than turning at speed. My test involved a series of cones placed about 7 feet apart in a line about 50 feet long, which I had to slalom through at walking speed–once starting on the left, once starting on the right, along with tests on turning in a tight circle, shifting, braking, and using the ancient secret hand-turn-signals. Almost all of the test was done at less than 10 mph.
If I didn’t have my two little sons to worry about, I’d think about getting another one.
I had a little 250 that got me places, was fun, and was very economical.
As Baron said, there’s a lot of maintenance/and other work you can easily do yourself ( I did my own brakes and plugs and oil changes).
The flip side is the danger, I know quite a few people who have gotten seriously injured and even had a close childhood friend die. Most of these were not due to their own carelessness, but to other factors (other car drivers, oil/gravel on the road, etc.)
No matter how careful YOU are, there’s always some a-hole on the road who isn’t. My ex-boyfriend is a firefighter (although they go to many medical/accident calls) and he says that all the motorcycle accidents he goes to (which is a lot), most of them aren’t they motorcyclists’ fault, and of those who do survive their injuries, they are really f-ed up.
Take lessons if youdo decide to buy one, even people who already know how to ride say these classes have really helped them.
In California ? If you prepare a bit, it’s child’s play. Taking a multiple-choice test gets you a learner’s permit. (Good for one year. No passengers, freeways or after-dark riding allowed.) Read the DMV’s textbook - more of a pamphlet - and you’ll pass. I didn’t read it (they were out of them), and I still passed.
Ride, enjoy, then go take the practical test to get a proper license.
The practical test contains of a quiz part where you’re asked to locate such exotic mechanical details as brakes, clutch, gear shifter etc, a maneuvering part on the DMV parking lot and a ride around the block. The maneuvering bit took some practice for me - the circle they ask you to ride in is small enough that I had to twist my handlebars quite literally to the stops. (Honda Interceptors are not ideal for this kind of thing.)
Go to the DMV, inspect the course, then copy it out somewhere and practice. I found that I had an easy time going counter-clockwise, but not going clockwise. You’ll need to do some slow zig-zags around cones, too.
As I said, I started on mini-bikes when I was five. I rode my first proper motorcycle when I was 10, and got my own first motorcycle when I was 12. All of that was dirt riding, since obviously I didn’t have a license. I moved to the desert when I was 15, and I got lots of dirt riding in there before I got my license. AfterI was licensed, I still took the Yamaha 250 Enduro out almost every day after school.
Dirt riding is an excellent way to learn to ride. For one thing, you are usually going slower than on the street. It hurts less when you crash. Also, dirt bikes (and Enduros – mow called “dual sports”) are made to take abuse. They’re also a lot lighter than street bikes. When you’re riding in dirt, you have to look out for rocks, soft sand, brush, etc. You learn to think ahead of the bike, and your reflexes develop so that you can handle sudden situations. I credit my years of off-road riding for my reflexes.
Motorcycles come in different weights. My first bike, a 100cc Yamaha LT2 Enduro, weighed 187 pounds. My 250 was a bit over 200. I think the Seca II is around 400 pounds. My R-1 weighs 458 wet, I think. (Only 450 pounds, and 140 horses. Yeehaw! ) Yes, they’re heavy compared to a bicycle; but you get used to it very quickly. I should say that my Seca II is easier to move around at slow speeds than the R-1. It’s a little lighter, and there’s more travel in the steering that makes it easier to get out of tight spaces. Of course, the R-1 handles batter at speed. It was designed to. And to re-iterate what I said earlier: Do not get an R-1 or any other sportbike as your first ride!
Oh yeah: When you think you’re doing pretty well on your bike, be very very careful. Overconfidence is a killer.
Baron seems a little low on the low-end of the tire prices. But then, it depends on what you’re buying. The Seca II rear tyre costs about $130-$140. The R-1 rear goes for $160 or more. Mounting them costs about $100. Whenever I change a tire, it seems to cost me close to 300 bones. And they don’t last very long. I got 20,000 miles out of the first set on the Seca, and the dealer was absolutely amazed. Plan on 10,000 miles or less. (Although, as Baron said, you can get up to 15,000. My 20,000 was a fluke.)
Another maintenance issue is the chain. The harder you accellerate, the faster it wears out. The more powerful your bike is, the faster it will wear out. 9,000 - 10,000 miles is about average for a chain. When you change the chain, it’s also good practice to change the sprockets. This is because the teeth wear out. If you put a new chain on an old sprocket, your chain will wear faster. You should lube your chain every 500 miles.
I try to get the tires and chains and sprockets done at the same time. It’s also a good time for a tune-up and oil change. That usually sets me back about $600-$700. I averaged about 7,700 miles per year on the Seca; less on the R-1 because I still have the Seca, and because we get more rain in the PNW than I did in L.A. So figure approximately $750/year for the tyres, chain, sprockets, one tune-up, and an oil change. You’ll also want a major maintenance done every x,000 miles. (Depends on how assiduously you follow the manual, and how your bike is performing.) The major maintenance includes a tune-up and carburettor synch, forks and shocks, battery check… basically IRAN (Inspect and Repair As Necessary).
I think motorcycles are more maintenance-intensive than cars. Shop rates are $60-$70/hour, and factory parts are usually not very cheap. You can “drive a car into the ground” without worrying too much about safety; but it’s unsafe to let a motorcycle get behind on maintenance.
Still, you’re paying less for gas, less for parking, and less for insurance. You’re saving gobs of time, and you’re having a lot of fun at the same time. I’d say it’s definitely worth it.
I was fortunate in that I started riding very young on rather slow machines inthe dirt. Learning to ride on the street at an older age leaves you less leeway for mishaps. Better to get professional training. Many states require professional training now, anyway.
I don’t know what kind of traffic you ride in, but my 250cc yammy does fine. It’s what you do with it that counts
Motorbikes are great. They’re so great I don’t even have a car license
Quick! Go tell everyone else! I am so sick of getting stuck in a bus behind a 400 m line of SUV’s in which sit only 1 person per car, and they could all fit in a single 8 metre bus.
Meanwhile, my roommate is one of those people, who insists it’s too far to walk from the train station to her work. I thought yeh, reasonable excuse, until I found out her work was literally across the road from the train station :eek: :mad:
Anyway, my bike gets about… 8 litre tank/250km. Ummm, I don’t know how to do the conversions, but a gallons about 3 litres? and a mile is 1.6 km… soooo… 2.5 gallon/150 mile? For some reason that sound incredibly wrong.
Ok, I ownde a 250 Virago… but there girls bikes. For a first bike, don’t get something shiny, otherwise, if you don’t clean it, your chrome will rust, and the value drops. Don’t get something big, 250’s pretty standard and good to start off with. Not too heavy, not too slow.
Don’t get something too old, because it will probably need you to fix it. Try to find an owner’s manual to the bike you want so that you know how to fix it.
Cheers,
Engine.
I was going to say I couldn’t be arsed to figure it out, owing to a severe caffeine defficiency at the moment; but I did anyway: 73.5 miles per gallon.
This could be reasonable, or it could be way off depending on the bike and how you ride. As I said, I get 50-55 mpg on my 600cc Yamaha. On the other hand, my 250 Enduro, a two stroke, only got about 34 mpg. If your Yamaha is a four-stroke and you don’t flog it at high speeds, 73 mpg sounds right.
Well I do really flog it
Oh, and that measurement includes me running it down to reserve. I don’t know what stroke it is. But it’s a cruiser.
But I will finish this off with,
BIKE’S ARE GOOD M’KAY
Let me say first that I love motorcycles. I’ve been riding for 25 years now. I won’t stop until I’m too old and creaky to climb into the saddle and hold the bike at stoplights (and then I’ll probably just get a sidecar rig).
You should get a motorcycle. It will make you very, very happy.
However, as a number of posters have said, maintenance costs on a bike are surprisingly high. As a number of posters have said, you can do almost all of it yourself, if you’re a little bit mechanically inclined.
The Honda Nighthawk is a good bike, and Honda’s reputation for build quality and reliability is well-deserved. The Suzuki SV650 is also a great bike, and its technology is a bit more up-to-date than that of the Nighthawk. You should be able to find good deals on relatively low-mileage examples of either bike – they weren’t all that expensive when new, and they made a lot of them.
Things that will surprise you in terms of maintenance:
Tires. Bike tires usually don’t last more than 10-15,000 miles. You can get $50 tires (Cheng Shins come to mind), but you’ll give up a fair amount of traction. Expect to pay around $100 for a decent tire (you won’t need the stickiest sport tires), and $40 or so to mount each one (I’m in New York. California labor costs may be higher or lower – I just don’t know).
Oil changes are easy, but bike oil needs to be changed around every 3,000 miles, especially in an air-cooled bike like the Nighthawk. Contrary to what someone said above, you don’t need to buy special motorcycle oil at $5 or $6 a quart – plain old Castrol or whatever you get at the local auto parts store for $1.79 will do just fine.
Most motorcycles require valve adjustments every 5 to 6,000 miles (I believe the Nighthawk has automotive-style hydraulic valve lifters, so no adjustment necessary). This is easier on some bikes than others.
Carburetor or throttle body synchronization must be done at regular intervals. Not hard at all, but it requires some specialized tools.
Lots of little bits need to be greased or otherwise lubed at regular intervals.
Gas mileage varies wildly on bikes. My BMW R1100RSL gets about 40 MPG.
And, finally, remember that you can only transport one passenger on a bike.
You’re probably right. I’ve lived in the BMW boxer world so long that I forgot for a moment that that there are bikes with overhead cams and bucket and shim valve adjustments that allow longer intervals between adjustments than the older-tech, pushrod and screw-and-locknut valve adjusters you’ll find on a boxer. Even the BMW four-cylinder K bikes have overhead cams and bucket and shim adjustment, and their interval is 12,000 miles or more, and they’re reputed to almost never be out of spec when checked.
The SV650 is an underappreciated gem of a bike. I’ve never owned one, but I rented on several occasions, and it’s a blast.
Only thing: If you start riding it like a serious sportsbike - IOW, if you try to hang with fast riders on Suzuki GSXRs and Ninjas and the like (the bike is good enough that you can at least try that…) - it will start to come apart.
[Nitpick]Motorbike’s with sidecars can hold two.[/Nitpick]
My dad’s a big fan of sidecars, right now he owns a Honda Goldwing, that can haul two passengers, himself and a campervan :eek:
