Some Motorcycle questions from a newbie

Factual Questions
1

I have been driving a car for about 6 years now, but I want to experience the absolute acceleration of a motorcycle! :smiley: So eventually I will end up with a Kawasaki ZX10-R or a Suzuki GSX 1300R, or something similar.

The problem is that I have never used a motorcycle before, not even a scooter. I am going to start motorcycle lessons in about 6 months, but still, I have some questions.

I need some help from experienced riders in choosing a bike. Should I buy one of the bikes I mentioned earlier? Or should I start with something less powerful? Note that the bike is going to be my only means of transportation, so it has to be rather big and powerful.

2

There are several motorcycle threads in IMHO and MPSIMS, but I find it difficult to bypass a motorcycle thread!

Do not get a sportbike for your first ride. It would be like getting a Porsche Carrera on your 16th birthday. Flashy, fun and fast; but dangerous and expensive if you crash it.

CV: I started riding mini bikes when I was five. I rode my first real motorcycle when I was ten. Got my first motorcycle of my very own when I was 12. I’ve been riding for over 30 years. All of my bikes have been Yamahas, except for a '79 Honda CX500 I bought for a dollar back in the '90s. I’ve ridden other people’s Hondas and Suzukis.

Obviously, I started riding in the dirt; which is a good place to learn, because it’s softer when you crash. Dirt bikes are lighter than street bikes, which makes them easier to pick up and to “throw around”. They had two-cycle engines, so they had good power for their size. (When I was in Europe I called home. My older sister begged my dad to let her ride my 250 Enduro. “If I can ride my boyfriend’s 650, I can ride Johnny’s little ol’ 250!” She was across the street and on the ground before she knew what hit her. I never did get the dent out of the tank.) Starting so young was good for establishing reflexes necessary for riding. I credit my years of bouncing across the desert with my reflexes today.

It’s said that there are two types of motorcylists: Those who have crashed, and those who are going to crash. Some people will tell you they have never gone down. It’s likely that they will eventually. This is why it’s a good idea to get an inexpensive bike for your first ride. My Enduros were new, but they were naked. No plastic to break, and it was assumed that people would dump them when riding offroad. There are a lot of used street bikes around from the '70s through the mid-'80s that don’t have a lot of plastic on them and that are fairly inexpensive. A used Honda CB would be an excellent choice for a “learning bike”.

If you’re inclined to eventually get a sport bike, I would suggest getting a standard-class bike first. They’re closer to the sport class than tourers or cruisers. (Once, all bikes were standards and they were modified for different uses. Nowadays, bikes are pretty specialised.)

Bikes have gotten more powerful over the years. My 2002 Yamaha YZF-R1 (I got the 2002 because the 2003s didn’t coem in red :wink: ) weighs about 430 pounds and has 140 hp. The 2004s have 180 hp. :eek: It’s quite a departure from my other bike, a 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca II. The seating position is different, and it has a larger turning radius. And a lot more power! In it’s turn, the Seca accellerates faster and handles better than the Honda CX500 it replaced. There’s a definite learning curve when you step up to a sportbike, and it can be a dangerous learning curve for someone who has never ridden before and chooses a sportbike as their first.

Again: Sportbikes are not a good choice for your first bike.

Unless you get a small one. Kawasaki made (still makes?) the Ninja 250. It has the styling and the seating position, but it’s not so powerful. This would make it a poor choice for your primary means of transportation though.

One bike you might want to look at is the Honda CB750 Nighthawk. Since it’s a standard, it will be easier to learn on than a sport class. It’s big enough to handle routine freeway riding. It’s inexpensive and reliable. But I’d still suggest a used '80s standard to start with, just because they’re so economical.

Once you have some miles under your butt, you’ll want something bigger and faster. I really like the Yamaha FJR1300. It has basically the same engine as my R1 (although it’s a 1300cc), has a more comfortable riding position, provision for integral saddle bags and has a sportbike look to it. This would be a good machine for travelling and for everyday use. But it’s too much bike to learn on.

The bikes you mentioned are poor choices for a first bike. Get a smaller, used, standard class ride to learn on; then move up to a sportbike when you’re ready.

3

The big mistake former car drivers make when bike riding is to ride lke they drive, and it takes a certain amount of time to build up the bike roadsense.

The previous advice is pretty much on the nail, moving on to one of the top sportsbikes will take several years, by which time things will have moved on somewhat.

The usual pattern of starting small is the best one, you can do yourself mighty damage even on a Honda CG125 if you hit something immovable.

Usually the main worries are accelaration, and laying down more power than grip available, and these are so much less likely on smaller capacity machines.

One work colleague has just moved from a 600Seca to a 600Ninja, and because the latter is so deceptive in its speed, he has stacked it. He simply didn’t realise he was going into a familiar corner 30mph faster than he thought. He’s ok, it was a slow corner but he has been riding several years and just went too quick too soon.

On real roads you don’t actually need anything more than a sports 400 but an excess of power is just never enough, bikes are all about accelaration, the 400cc machine can outgun just about any 4 wheeler on the road, heck, even a scooter can - up to around 60 mph.

I’d expect it will take you a good 5 years or so before you start looking at the type of stuff you mention, and quite honestly, there is more fun to be had wringing the last pony out of a 400 than there is riding around at less than quarter throttle on one of the big sportsbikes, you can get away with outrageous corner speed and late braking on a smaller machine, matching the correct gear to revs to lean angle is very satisfying.

Bikes like Aprilias RS250 have huge grin factors, I’ve tried out a RS125 tuned up to the max and its like throwing a mountain bike around compared to my recent purchase of a '94Triumph Trident - not as much torque though.
Small bikes really are immense fun, don’t be in such a hurry to climb the capacity league.

4

What you’re suggesting equates to diving into the deep end without knowing how to swim!! I strongly discourage you from doing that!!!

Mostly what Johnny L. A. said, but I want to add that since the bike is going to be your only mode of transport, I suggest restrcting yourself to the 400cc to 600cc range.

You want something light, easy to handle and not too powerful. Once you feel confident enough on bikes, then start thinking of climbing onto bigger bikes. Even then I wouldn’t reccomment the 'Busa or a similar bike - not unless you’re really good on two wheels.

5

Tyres, or handle bars? :wink: The Seca II (called the Diversion in Europe) is puny compared to the R-1; but it gave my arms a good yank compared to the CX500.

I have the impression that riding is different on the right side of the Atlantic than it is here. In the western U.S., I want at least 600cc for freeway riding. But yes, 400cc is plenty for most riding – including freeways.

Indeed, man! I love my sportbike, but small bikes – especially older ones – have a good component of the “fun factor”. If I were to come across a '70-something CB360T, I’d consider buying it.

Incidentally: I don’t know how it is in the UK, but here insurance costs shoot up after 700cc. A 600cc bike will likely cost much less to insure than a 750cc. For example, full coverage on my Seca II cost about $200/year when it was new (and had full coverage). A coworker bought a Suzuki GSXR-750. His full-coverage insurance cost over ten times as much. (Of course, the “Gixer” is a sportbike and the Seca II is a standard; and gixers were one of the most stolen bikes at the time, and he was a new rider. But dealers have told me that over 700cc results in higher insurance costs.)

We keep saying this. There’s a reason.
[qoute]Location: India
[/quote]

gouda: Ya wanna be a pal and mail me a Royal Enfield Bullet? :smiley:

6

Very well said, Mr. L.A.. For what it’s worth, I used to be a Yamaha mechanic, and I seem to recall that the cost of plastic and stickers was enough to total out a 600-750cc sport bike. I doubt that the same could be said about a one liter bike, but the covers would still have the same dollar amount. Beyond that, have you priced insurance? Comprehensive on a 1000cc bike used to cost more than the note on the bike.

Besides (IMHO), acceleration aside, big bikes aren’t as much fun. Personally, I’d rather have something that I could flick around in the corners than ride something that had that much inertia and was that heavy at low speeds.

7

Another lifelong rider checking in …

What Johnny L.A. said.

Start with something moderate or you’ll be crippled/dead and the bike’ll be junk within 6 months. Motorcycling is a different skill from driving and takes time to absorb. It’s also real unforgiving of mistakes. Motorcylists don’t have “fender benders”.

As transportation, the super crotch-rockets suck. You want something with a more upright riding position for comfort and a seat long enough to strap a small box onto. Been there, done that.

And, as other have said, even a clapped out 10-year old 350 cc sport-tourer can kick the ass of every car on the road except the Ferraris. And you can buy one for little more than lunch money.

Don’t stint on a real full-coverage helmet and a real leather jacket. Not one from the mall, one from a real riding equipment company. BIG difference in performance.

I once got got knocked off my bike (1978 Yamaha 750 triple) doing about 70 mph on the freeway. (in LA on the Long Beach southbound at Bandini for the locals).

I was essentially uninjured, but that was due to a real helmet (Shoei), real leather jacket, gloves, & boots (Bates), and heavy denim pants. I was wearing about $500 (that’s 1970’s dollars) worth of protection and most of it was destroyed in the accident. Money well spent. Sure, it’s hot and confining to wear, but so’s a wheelchair.

8

Uhh… OK. Not my first thinking, but OK.

Almost any street bike out there has enough power to do anything you can legally do. Even the slowest street bikes are usually faster than cars, so I would stop thinking bigger is better.

If I were you, I would pick the street bike I liked the most, that felt the most comfortable, in the 500-800cc range. But, the bike is the easy part.

By far the most important thing you can do is take a motorcycle safety coarse. Find one in your area and take it. You will learn a lot. I have ridden for years and I took the “advanced” course in my area and learned a few things, and it was fun pushing your bike to the limits with stopping and turning.

Other than that, just choose something you like and practice. When I ride in the city, I often have to have a mindset that “everyone out here is trying to kill me”. This helps me be aware of everyone on the road and watch out. A fender-bender in a car can kill you on a motorcycle, so be aware and be careful, and get the training to make you successful.

9

Unless you’re a gigantic person, a 650cc will get you up to 80mph on the highway, which is darn fast enough for a newbie, IMHO.

I agree with the other posts, in principle. I prefer not to use scare tactics, so I won’t say you’ll crash or die if you get a “big” bike. Instead, I suggest that you’ll feel more comfortable riding a 500-650, and you’ll learn faster. A smaller bike will help you pass your driving test easier, if you live in a state that has one. Smaller bikes get better gas mileage, too.

Remember you can always move up once you’re ready. I started on a 400, graduated to a 650, and now ride a 1000. I would not have done it differently. I can now do things on my BMW K100RS that I couldn’t do even on my old Honda 400!

My recommendation is to look for a 1980s Yamaha XS650, or 1980s-1990s Honda Interceptor. In short, look for a strong, low-mileage twin without much fiberglas.I’ve repaired some major dings in a Yahama XS650 for $100, while repairing the fiberglas on my “K” cost $4000 (fortunately I wasn’t paying!)

10

No one has addressed this so far (I don’t think so, at any rate), but, while I loved my bike (a Kawasaki KZ650, back in the late 1970s), rainy days were not a lot of fun. Snowy, icy days weren’t exactly a bundle of laughs, either. Very hot days were almost worse - there’s no way to escape the heat rising off that engine block, and riding in shorts and a t-shirt is a very bad idea. The ability to carry bags of groceries, in any weather, was very limited. And forget about bringing home some lumber for your latest DIY home improvement project.

Think twice about relying on a bike as your sole means of transportation.

Other than that, what others have said: mid-sized is your best bet, and always wear good protective clothing (especially helmet and boots).

Oh, and BTW, that KZ650 easily reached speeds of 110 mph. You don’t need “humongous” to get your thrills!

11

Here here. My 9 yr old 250cc Yammy can do that. Personally, for a first bike, I wouldn’t go over 300cc. A bike is a *lot * different than a car. And bigger bikes eat more gas.
I would say buy a 250, it (well, mine) can do the 112 km/h that’s required on your highest speed limits, but it does top out at 150km/h. It has a 10 litre tank which last about 300kms. (ummm, that would be, about <200 miles? I’m not sure about the litres/gallons conversion, but I think about 3 gallons?)
But hey, if you want something to show off to your mates, have not so good fuel economy and perhaps even kill you, 400+cc is the way.

12

I don’t think we’re using scare tactics. We’re just pointing out the consequences of buying a too-powerful bike without having any riding experience, and offering alternatives. BTW: I wish I had a Yamaha XS650. Way retro-:ccol:.

This is true. Rain gets the bike filthy.

Not something I had to think about in SoCal. (But it can be a factor up here in the PNW.)

Unless you live in California. Lane-splitting is legal there. :slight_smile:

I’ll give you the lumber, but there’s a lot you can carry on a bike with a little forethought and ingenuity. A large daypack was and is good enough for my grocery shopping. The Seca II has a two-person seat and a small (very small) rack on the back that allows me to carry fairly large boxes with the application of a couple of bungees. I’ve also carried my backpack, a tent and a sleeping bag on my Seca; and a goodly load of Christmas presents and a guitar once.

112 km/h is less than 70 mph. 150 km/h is about 93 mph. Around here, the speed limit is 70 mph.

13

Thank you all for the advice :slight_smile: That ZX-10R will have to wait for some years until I gain some experience.

I guess I’ll have to test-drive several different motorcycles until I find one that is most suitable for me.

Several years ago, I met a guy who had both a motorcycle and a car. On rainy days, he would use his motorcycle. This is counter-intuitive, but I believe he was right. Getting out of the car and walking for several minutes in the rain would get him wet. But when he was riding the bike, he would wear a heavy raincoat, so he wouldn’t get wet no matter how hard it was raining. Wearing a raincoat in the car doesn’t sound so good :stuck_out_tongue:

14

I’ll do you one better:

Distributors - USA

Classic Motorworks
1220B 4th St. NW
Faribault, MN 55021
Telephone: 1 - 800 201 7472 (toll free in North America)
Fax: 1 -507 333 0782
Email: RylEnfield@aol.com
Website: www.enfieldmotorcycles.com
Contact Person:
Mr. Kevin Mahoney

Incidentally, I’m considering buying the Thunderbird next year. Too bad they don’t sell it stateside…

15

Getting wet is preferrable to laying down your bike on the wet road because your quick move to avoid a car meant you tore the envelope of your grip.

16

So far all the advice has been good. I would think about getting The Idiots Guide to Motorcycles. I got that book years ago when I first started to learn and it was a great book. There is also a section in the back that shows a good number of bikes and whether the author thought the bike was good for a beginer or not.

You do not need to look only at the CCs as that can be misleading. Some of the newer 600 sport bikes can be a handful, while a 1000 cruiser might not be too much. My first bike was a 600 cruiser and it could only go around 95 max, while a 250 Ninja can do over 100. You want a bike that you like the looks of and one that fits you first, otherwise you might not be able to handle the bike as well.

17

  1. If you get an overpowered bike as a starter, you’ll never become a good rider. You’ll never learn good throttle or brake control and you’ll generally not feel as comfortable pressing your limits. I’m alot more impressed by a rider’s skill than his bike.

  2. Read “Proficient Motorcycling” by David Hough.

  3. Lurk/post over at www.beginnerbikes.com . They are very conservative but helpful. They would tell you that even a Suzuki SV650 was iffy for a first bike. If you’re mature and start slow, I’d think it’s doable. Most would recommend either a 500cc standard (Buell Blast, GS500) or a 250cc Ninja if you’re determined to own a sportbike.

  4. Get a full face/modular helmet. If you’re thinking otherwise, I’ll send you a link to a picture on Rotten of a guy who wore a 3/4.

  5. Take the MSF course or lessons. And not just “racetrack” lessons.

  6. Wear your gear. Dress for the fall, not for the ride.

  7. Buy a used first bike. You won’t have to deal with breaking it in and it won’t break your heart when you drop it. IMO, if you don’t drop it (at slow speeds) your probably not testing the limits of your bike/skill enough. Learning the limits of your bike/ability in controlled conditions is better than learning them for the first time on the street.

18

Why are you waiting six months to take the Motorcycle course? The motorcycle safety course taught in most cities is an excellent thing to do. Riding a (motor)bike is not as intuitive as you might think and you learn things in the class that will make your experience much safer.

There are a lot of different opinions about what makes the best first bike. For some excellent information online (and a good message board, too): check out

www.beginnerbikes.com