Should I have called the paramedics?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I mean, I think I know the answer, but hear me out.
I saw an older lady have a rather bad fall today at work. She was standing at the customer service counter at the store I work in. (I work in the pharmacy, a short distance away from the front desk, so I wasn’t right there but I was close enough to see the whole thing happen.)

Behind her, there was one of those extendable line dividers, like the ones you see at the movies. She leaned back against it, thinking, it looked like, it was something more solid she could lean against, and fell flat on her back and smacked her head on the floor. She sort of reached her hands up and started shaking.

As soon as I saw this happen, I dialed 911 and described what I had seen happen. While I’m on the phone with them, people have gathered around her, a manager was summoned, she was helped up from the ground and someone got her a chair. She wasn’t knocked out, and was able to get up(with help) fairly easily.

Anyway, the paramedics showed up within a couple minutes and took her. A couple of the store managers asked me a couple questions about what I saw, and then got into their own conversation about it, still standing where I could hear them. I guess the lady had said she didn’t want an ambulance called and just wanted to go home. I’ve seen people before refuse medical assistance because they didn’t want to get stuck with the hospital bills. (From what I hear ambulance rides can be very expensive.)

I can certainly understand that, and I’ve even done similar myself. I’ve gotten into a few car accidents, a couple of them fairly bad, but I declined to go to the hospital each time because I felt I didn’t need to.

So, that brings me to my question. Should I have done it, or waited to see if she seemed ok? People went to her right away, as I said, and helped her up, but I watched her fall, and she went down hard. She was also elderly, not sure exactly what age. My first instinct was to call an ambulance, so that’s what I did, but my intent certainly wasn’t to stick her with a bill she couldn’t pay.

I’m also having a hard time getting the image of that poor woman lying on the ground, shaking and shocked, out of my head. I felt so bad for her.

So, dopers, what say you?

2

I think you did the right thing. Especially with hitting her head, most people aren’t educated enough to look at her and determine right away if an ambulance is needed.

3

It isn’t appropriate for lay people to determine if a person is confused from the fall and able to make the decision whether to seek treatment or not.

You absolutely did the right thing.

USCDiver, MD

ETA: if she’s over 65 in the US, she has Medicare and you don’t have to worry about sticking her with a bill.

4

She still didn’t have to go even though you called.

You definitely did the right thing.

5

I’m not seeing a problem. You saw an accident, called 911 immediately. I suspect that’s exactly what your employee handbook would suggest. The person that fell was free to decline medical attention once it arrived.

Suppose you didn’t call, and the woman had a serious injury? She could have died in the store because no one bothered to call for help…

6

You did the right thing. She had a good chance of having a head injury. Time to call the pros.

7

Yes, absolutely. The people who were wrong were your coworkers who helped her to stand. If someone falls, especially an old woman, they should be gently encouraged to stay down until trained medical help arrives. She might have broken something in her spine, head or a hip. Lots of hip fractures look like they fell and broke their hip as a result, but are really a spontaneous break followed by a fall *because *of the break.

You did exactly the right thing, never fear.

8

You definitely did the right thing. I’d much rather go on a call and not be needed than go on a call when it’s too late. Also, in regards to this specific case, head trauma can result in injuries that are not immediately apparent, especially in an elderly patient.

If you’re not sure, call. We can always cancel or get a refusal.

St. Urho
Paramedic

9

Absolutely you did the right thing.

10

My best friend and fellow doper Bambi Hassenpfeffer just saw this thread and texted me and told me that technically, according to the store rules, I did not do the right thing. (He works for the same chain as I do and was a manager briefly awhile back. He doesn’t agree, he’s just quoting the rules).

I had a feeling this may have been the case, and I sort of got a bad vibe from the store managers when they were asking me about what happened. Apparently according to procedure a manager(which I am not, I’m a pharmacy tech) has to determine whether or not to call 911. No one actually told me I did anything wrong, but this is what gave me pause about the whole thing. The managers of the store are the type who care more about liability than the women’s well-being. Screw them. I saw that woman fall, and she needed help.

Thanks for the answers and the backup, everyone.

11

You are a (wo)man of action, and you did the right thing. Good for you.

12

Then store management failed in communicating the policy to all employees. You should have already known you were supposed to ask a manager before calling 911. Don’t they offer training about emergency procedures? What if the fire alarm goes off?

Although the policy seems wrong to me. As a customer, I’ve noticed that store managers can be hard to find in a hurry. I think you did the right thing.

13

Head trauma = call the paramedics

It’s that simple.

Huh? Now, that explains a lot. I was once witness of rather bad case of grand mal waiting in line in hypermarket - and it wasn’t initially obvious if it’s grand mal or something worse, as guy was screaming, clutched his chest and fall to the ground rather hard. And it took like forever to get some help… I was expecting them to call paramedics immediately (they have phones after all), but first manager had to get here from other end of the shop, and then assess situation with his wide-eyed “oh my gosh” professional knowledge, and then… So, it simply IS policy after all, not just random fuck-up. Good to know.

14

If that’s store policy then whoever came up with it is a total idiot. Some medical emergencies don’t allow that kind of time. If it was a stroke or heart attack, you’re supposed to wait for Skippy the Wonder Clown to render his judgement? I don’t see why calling 911 has to be up the store manager.

15

This is the only part I needed, the motivation of your heart was based on love, so you did what you were suppose to IMHO.

16

You did the right thing. It sounds like she fell because she thought she could lean against the line divider, but what if she fell because she was dizzy?
I can (sort of) understand the store policy of having managers call, but in this case you saw it happen and it was better for you to call immediately and give the dispatchers the information that you had.
As St. Urho said, we can get a refusal if a patient really doesn’t want to go. We can’t force people to go to the hospital, but better safe than sorry.

  • Bibliocat, EMT
17

The store managers want to make the call for reasons of liability, but that’s not an obligation on the part of a bystander, regardless of them being an employee or not.

Other than that, what Bibs said…

-VunderBob, 'nuther EMT

18

Without reading the other posts. Yes, you did the right thing. If she didn’t want to go she is more then welcome to decline the offer. The EMT’s will have her sign something saying she declined help. They may even recommend she drive herself there if she is just concerned about the ambulance bill. At my store I call 911 any time something like that happens.
To be completely honest one of the reasons I do it is so that if they decide to sic their insurance company on me I have something in writing and signed by the person saying that she/he was checked out by the EMTs and was okay (yes I know injuries can set in later, but this still helps the case when they way they broke their femur) and left on their own without help.

Also if she WAS hurt it’s better to have the EMTs there now, rather then seeing her pass out in the chair and then calling and having them come 20 minutes later. It’s free if you don’t need them (at least around here), better safe then sorry.

19

If that’s the policy, I think it may need to be reconsidered. If the concern is liability, I fail to see how calling paramedics immediately could possibly make things worse. If the woman sues, the store either was negligent in using the line dividers, or it was not. If it was, then calling 911 immediately may help mitigate damages. Really can’t believe they’d want a jury to hear everybody was just standing around waiting for a manager to show up…

20

Ha. IANAL, but I’d say that is she fell in a store, it’s likely that the STORE will end up paying for the ambulance and any medical treatment.