I don’t need to see no steenkin’ pictures, and those who have argued in favor of release haven’t made any arguments that I feel are worth supporting. Sorry.
ETA: I rather enjoyed the President’s statement that he saw no reason to “spike the ball” in regards to what was basically an assassination.
I would say that if there’s a chance that releasing such photos would act as a further catalyst for those who would do harm, then unfortunetly the desires of the 9/11 victims are subordinate to the necessity of trying to avoid new victims of some other attack.
Beyond that, I tend to agree that it’s not a very noble reaction. By all means, it would be perfectly legitimate to treat the guy (and his remains) unpleasantly, but the point of being noble is not doing such things even when you have reason and excuses.
This is not a GOP/DEM thing. I’m hearing some Republicans agreeing with Obama, and some Dems disagreeing on this issue.
The photos are going to get out there sooner or later. Better to control the situation than have to react to an “oops”.
The President of the United States, as an office, owed the families of the victims what they got. Tenacity in following through hunting OBL down and the willingness to do what it took to get him. They are not owed his head on a plate or his scalp to hang on a wall, even if some of them want that.
The President of the United States, as an office, owes the people of the United States what they are getting: our President looking beyond the pandering to the conspiracy minded and to those who are seeking vengeance more than justice, and making a decision based on his assessment of what is in our long term best interests. If OBL was not killed and is free then we would be hearing from him by now. So those who believe he was not killed must be thinking he is actually undergoing “enhanced interrogation” somewhere before he gets executed and dumped at sea. I see no reason to expend any energy or to make any decision that might cost us anything to disabuse those people of that notion.
The circumstance with JFK’s murder is in no way comparable to this and is an idiotic reference.
I’m torn on this one. ON the one hand I say fuck the Muslim sensibilities. These people are too easily offended, and by strange stuff, at that. I see know reason to cater to their delusions when it comes to cartoons, their view of women, or how we depict a piece of murdering scum. On the other hand, we shouldn’t run this in the face of anyone. At some point some of the people we are fighting will have an American in their hands, and we don’t want to add fuel to the fire as to he will be treated. On yet another hand, they treat the Americans they get their hands on like shit anyone. Anyone remember what they did to the American bodies in Fallujah?
So, what to do? I’d say don’t make them public. Invite the families of the 9/11 victims to come see them privately.
One more thing, the cheering crowdS, the Americans outside the White House, etc, I was really chocked to see that. I didn’t think that’s what we do. Very bad form. Very embarrassing.
I still don’t have a strong opinion about it, but I think this is probably the right call. Accepting people’s legit emotional needs and the fact that more evidence is always better than less, there isn’t very much to be gained from releasing the picture and there is the potential for damage.
It’s a fact that there is not very much proof he’s dead. You don’t have to be nuts to point that out. The evidence is: the administration has said he is dead, that nobody is denying he is dead even though Al Qaeda and others would have an obvious interest in rebutting that story if it were false, the accidental live blogging of the raid, the publication of his will, and the general implausibility of most of the conspiracy narratives. That’s pretty much it. That being said, pictures can be faked, and even if the pictures were accepted as legit, they can’t prove the entire story about the raid - just that he’s dead and that he was at the house.
I still would not be surprised if the photos leaked out through some Congressional source (for example). In fact this process may have already started - I saw one of the pictures in a dream last night. This may be the best way to disseminate them and it also indicates I need to start reading about something other than bin Laden. :smack:
You mean other than matching DNA samples and stuff like that?
(Sure the tinfoil hatters can always say that they are just making that up too … no evidence is going to be enough for the crazies.)
Allowing the remnants of Al Qaeda to have any propaganda tool that would help sell OBL as a fallen matyr, a hero, to a Muslim world that by and large right now does not see him that way, and that is increasingly viewing that particular brand of Islamism as irrelevant, that we do not need to let them have, would be unwise.
I think we’re miscommunicating here. The government has said it performed DNA tests and other tests. You and I have not seen them, so that’s part of the ‘the government says he’s dead’ category. I have no doubt the guy is sleeping with the fishes. I am just saying that, objectively, we haven’t seen that much evidence and I can understand people wanting to see more.
DNA evidence is about as objective as it gets. It’s enough to convict people for murder and to get people convicted off of death row. OTOH we all have personal experience in movie theaters and even watching TV that proves we cannot believe what we see.
Are you really arguing that the DNA match does not count as objective proof (because they could be lying about it) but that a photo does?
Really?
No.
You just know that shit would end up on every hick’s sweat stained wife-beater.
He doesn’t deserve an ounce of sympathy, the Twin Towers burning should be OBL’s visual legacy.
I’m glad they didn’t release the photos. They wouldn’t stop any conspiracy theories, and there’s no dignity in gloating over the body of a dead man. Kill him if you must, but then move on without celebration.
Yes, it is. Which is why the government says it used DNA testing. I’m just pointing out that we haven’t seen any results from the testing; we just have an asserion the tests were done. I’m sure they were done, but if we’re discussing sources of evidence, this is still pretty much ‘the government says X Y and Z happened.’
That would be stupid, so I don’t think you understand what I am saying here: I’m sure the guy is dead, but we’re not privy to much evidence to substantiate the assertions that he is dead.
Then the administration can arrange private viewings for those family members who request it. No need to plaster the pictures all over the world.
I maintain there is a simple reason not to release them: We are – or should be – better than that. Better than sickos who make videos of decapitating their victims. Better than sickos who drag the bodies of their enemies through their streets.
Yeah, but the same can be said about photos since they could be easily faked. Releasing photos wouldn’t prove anything one way or another.
I’ve already agreed with that point.
+1
If they weren’t going to release the photos, they should have never acknowledged their existence.
They could have just said that they transmitted an image made by a police sketch artist back to Langley and used that to verify his identity. No, wait that’s too much information. They could have used Navajo Code Talkers to transmit a description: “He’s about as tall as a tree and has a beard as long as a fox tail”; OK, that must be him. How many bearded guys are there in Pakistan anyway?
Who’s likely to believe we didn’t take any pictures? What would we do, deny it?