To me it rather looks like living by the same standards as you proclaim, which is a good thing. Political correctness? I call it good and proper decency and showing the world that we’re better than the barbarians.
I meant the decision to release the pictures. It was obvious that burying him at sea was pre-planned. Otherwise, why put him on a ship?
I understand the reasoning behind not showing the pictures. It might have pissed off some followers and they may have acted in revenge. The pictures may have been very ugly and unsettling.
I just do not agree. I would rather he released them.
But in either case, it is no big deal.
Don’t you think the speech would have been very different if the plan had failed, or if we had taken heavy casualties, or if the Pakistanis had caught on? The fact that the raid seemed to have gone more or less according to plan (besides the disabled chopper) is pretty remarkable.
Transparency is not flaunting gory pictures. Do you think releasing the pictures would have reduced the protests and threats? The protests seem reasonably muted, and perhaps they will try to take revenge, but I think they may be a bit more worried about us having their records.
Most of the people in this thread probably know this already, but today the administration released a series of videos apparently recorded at the home where bin Laden was killed. According to the administration - I say that because the audio was removed - four of the videos are messages to other al Qaeda operatives with critiques of the U.S. and capitalism and the like. (Three of the videos are reported to be rehearsals and the fourth is the ‘master’ version.) The other video is more of a home movie and it shows bin Laden watching news reports about himself on TV.
I think this is an excellent solution to the debate about the death photos. None of the videos prove that he’s dead, but there’s really no other way the U.S. would get this stuff. He wouldn’t release rehearsal footage, and in the other video he looks like an old man. His beard is gray and he’s wrapped in a blanket, wearing a wool cap and rocking in place a bit as he apparently watches himself on TV or reviews a DVRed report about the good old days or something. And if it’s true that AQ will be releasing a final statement bin Laden recorded shortly before he died, this steals the thunder from that a little bit.
This is silly. Withholding photos does not avoid irritating the followers of bin Laden; who cares what they think?
It avoids making us look like insensitive ghouls to all the other people in the world. It demonstrates that we are not as barbaric as the terrorists. The terrorists filmed the murders of people they had captured and broadcast them to the world while we show some respect for the cultural traditions of other peoples, even when a few members of those cultural groups are our foes.
The photos might very well make it out to the world via Wikileaks or the FOIA, but if that happens, it will not be the work of the U.S. government officially displaying contempt for other societies, but the work of private individuals.
Who cares what Bin Laden’s followers think? Only those of us who recognize that there are still quite a few of them, that they still constitute a threat, and that if his death (and the photos of it) cause them inspiration rather than demoralization that some of us could get hurt. That’s who cares.
They GPSed the body anyway, if they “needed” to retrieve it for any reason of course they still could.
Dude. It would totally be the all-time top draw at the Smithsonian.
Which would open the way for Night at the Museum III: The Jihād — “He’s BACK! And this time he’s REALLY pissed!” In the climactic battle scene having him stomped on by a hundred-foot tall stone Abe Lincoln would finally give the Republicans that victory that had eluded them.
Unless they dropped OBL into the sea in a steel container, I rather wager that no one is going to be able to recover the body. Bodies float, and fishies etc. eat.
Sooo . . . you’re saying we shouldn’t have taken a single picture of Osama bin Laden?
let’s review the events that occurred. The CIA and military put together an operation that involved extensive planning that included a mock-up of the building and repeated training . The President gave a thumbs up and it the people involved made it happen.
During this time, the President doesn’t have the foresight to see that he will have to make a public announcement and control the dissemination of information. Not only that, the people around him who are paid to plan these things in advance are not tasked with getting it done.
When the operation is complete the President saw fit to rush in front of a camera to make a late night announcement. The problem with this is that the dog ate his speech. He was an hour late for his request for media time so he could bask in the warm glow of other people’s success. He then had to made a road trip to Fort Bragg (painting a target on it) so he could suck up some more glory.
While the decision to go ahead with the operation was probably a gutsy move for a low time Senator it wasn’t much of an accomplishment for a President. He really only needed to prepare for a speech in advance of possible outcomes. The “fucktard”, as you put it, would be the President and his staff who couldn’t be bothered to think the process through. This is basic stuff. I can’t imagine someone scheduling a conference call and then delaying it an hour only to show up unprepared. The President didn’t make a decision on the pictures for days. If he can’t handle the simple stuff with a staff of highly paid people how can we expect him to deal with the big stuff?
I hope you convinced yourself, because that strained litany for me sounded like nothing more than the peevish spin of an ideological opponent straining to tear the man down. I don’t care for his politics per se, but your critique is fairly laughable.
Who cares? The people who might get attacked if the photos were released. Their families, their friends and other citizens who would become terrified.
I personally believe Al Qeada is over-hyped. But if they really can retaliate ,what is the payoff for pushing the mangled face of Bin Laden to the world. Let it go. There is no payoff for showing them.
I am not sure why you are arguing with me. Both of us agree that the government showing the photos is a bad idea. The only difference between our positions is that I wish to avoid irritating our friends and neutral observers while you think that showing the photos will make al Qaida do something worse than whatever they already plan to do based on bin Laden’s death.
OK, with you so far…
Or maybe he had the foresight to monitor the action that he ordered, and didn’t worry so much about disseminating the information afterward because there were multiple ways it could have played out.
Just a WAG, but perhaps the PR people weren’t made aware of things for reasons of secrecy.
If he hadn’t, people like you would have been complaining that he improperly withheld information for too long.
Um, which speech did you watch? I thought it was fine. A lot of people seemed to think he was very “presidential”, for whatever that’s worth.
Brian’s response to the leper who complains that being miraculously healed robbed him of a livelihood in Life of Brian seems apt here: “There’s no pleasing some people.”
For God’s sake, do you really miss Bush that much? I refer to all the slick public relations work and ultra-precise dissemination of information in the complete absence of well thought out policy. Is form really so much more important than substance?
I doubt anyone cares about his followers. The Arab street is far more important. And isn’t it nice to act more responsibly than terrorists?
Now, releasing the videos was brilliant. It proves he’s dead (not that anyone is doubting that now) and makes him look like an old fool. I’m waiting for the blooper reel with sound.
Have you ever have had to give a speech at the end of something? Knowing in general terms what you are going to say is one thing, writing the full speech beforehand is useless. He took a bit of extra time and came up with a winner of a speech. Maybe he should have rushed it and said something like our crusade has just begun?
And you know that if other people had screwed it up he’d have to take the heat, and make that speech, right?
Some presidents maybe worry that a decision on their part could lead to our boys getting hurt. Some presidents make decisions based on information that everyone but morons knew was false, that led to thousands of deaths of our troops and hundreds of thousands of deaths of civilians, and apparently never lose a night’s sleep about it. That’s the kind you seem to like.
I’m not disapproving of the action and would have supported him if it failed. He made a good decision with an 80% probability that bin Laden was there.
They weren’t according to his 60 minute interview. Most of his cabinet didn’t know about it. Excellent job keeping it under wraps. The President knew about it 8 months ago and had the CIA at his disposal to build multiple scenarios for a speech.
The speech itself was fine. My idea of “presidential” is showing up on time and being able to deal with the questions that followed the next day. I’d hate to be his Press Secretary.
Good movie, bad analogy. I expect the President to be as competent as the people I’ve worked with. Either I’ve been lucky enough to work for the smartest/brightest people on the planet or he’s not living up to my expectations.
Maybe I’m not making myself clear. Thumbs up on the operation and the decision behind it. Thumbs down on how it was handled in the press.
I disagree with his decision not to show a picture of the event given that we invaded a country to murder him. I don’t see where it will anger his already apoplectic followers any more than the home movies of Bin Laden that were released in an attempt to marginalize him.
Bolding mine. I don’t really see this getting enough play. We’re TOLD that OBL took a round to the dome and one to the chest - originally it was two in the head. It’s fairly clear from the video that we killed him in his bed, and given how the blankets and pillows were painstakingly thrown over the mattress I imagine they might have made quite a mess.
Sure, bullets aren’t like Hollywood gore-bombs and can often leave neat little holes. But they can also completely blast your head apart and I wouldn’t be surprised if most of his face was left underneath those blankets when they dragged his body away. Maybe there wasn’t much to release.