In light of recent threads I have decided to make a poll. Suppose someone says an inappropriate racial remark. They say “I would like to try and reason with but you know how are, they are all shiftless and lazy.” What should be the consequences of such a remark? I give 5 possible examples for different levels of responsibility. And 5 options as to consequences.
1 Major Public figure (Public Figure)
2 Owner or manager of a large company, nationwide (Owner/Manager 1)
3 Owner or manager of a large company, local or regional (Owner/Manager 2)
4 Mid or low level manager at a national regional or local company (Manager)
5 A common low level employee with nor responsibility within the company (Worker)
1 Should be fired
2 Not fired but major disciplinary action
3 Not fired but minor disciplinary action
4 Not fired, no disciplinary action, but should be viewed negatively
5 Not fired, no disciplinary action, should not be viewed negatively
If it’s anyone who might be interpreted as being a “face of the company”, and they’re making the remarks in a context that connects them with the company in the public view, then they should be fired.
CEO in any context that the board finds out about? Fired.
Anyone who says it online in the same posting as saying where they work? Fired.
Fast-food cashier who says it in front of a customer? Fired.
Backroom stocker who says it to another backroom stocker? Not fired, since it’s not getting out to the public.
Low-level employee who says it off the clock and without mentioning where they work? Not fired, since it’s not connected to the company.
1 Major Public figure (Public Figure)
2 Owner or manager of a large company, nationwide (Owner/Manager 1)
3 Owner or manager of a large company, local or regional (Owner/Manager 2)
4 Mid or low level manager at a national regional or local company (Manager)
5 A common low level employee with nor responsibility within the company (Worker)
1- Major Disciplinary action but not fired
2- Fired
3- Fired
4- Fired
5- Minor Disciplinary action
I agree with most of what Chronos said, except that I take exception with this:
If the other backroom stocker is offended enough to report this conversation to the employer, then you’ve got a situation where some disciplinary action is called for. If the backroom stocker is spouting off like this at work, then it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that a customer could overhear him. But even if that weren’t the case, employees should also have assurances they aren’t working for a company that tolerates racism. The backroom stocker could one day become manager. Does the company really want to deal with discrimination complaints and lawsuits?
I agree. They could move up the ladder and even if they don’t it is not a pleasant work environment. I think they should be disciplined but not fired, however.
I really don’t have a problem with them firing the dude. But I’d probably give him one more chance, especially if he’s young.
There are way too many people lined up at the door for jobs right now to give racist blabbermouths the benefit of the doubt. I’m guessing the stupid people who get fired after their racist Twitter posts go viral are the same kind of people who share their racist beliefs to coworkers behind closed doors.
Look, we are in basic agreement but there is some part of me that is still uncomfortable with firing/ostracizing people for expressing negative views… I’m arguing with you I am just saying I am a bit conflicted in my opinion, as long as, the person has no position of authority (if they do they clearly need to be fired).
But my rebuttal would be that everyone could be in a position of authority, potentially.
Let’s say you belong to the group that backroom stockboy was denigrating as “lazy”. The two of you come up for promotion and he gets the position. Suddenly he’s supervising you and possibly an entire team. Why wouldn’t your morale be affected, knowing your new boss thinks you are inherently defective?
It’s in a company’s interest to keep situations like this from happening. If management knows this blabbermouth is a racist and they put him in a position of power, then they could be opening themselves up to liability. Firing him that first time might save a whole lot of headache down the line.
If folks don’t want to be fired over stuff like that, they need to keep offensive opinions to themselves.
Yeah, well stated. I agree, actually I strongly agree. I’m still tempted to “give people the benefit of the doubt” that’s just the way I am, but looking at it objectively, looking at it for the overall situation, you are of course correct.
It is not my job to police other people’s consciences — and God Knows I find many beliefs vile and unspeakable.
I’m worried about all these pubic figures over-running America, though.
Anyone representing an organization and anyone with employees or other kinds of folk reporting to them should be fired. Ordinary employees… whether major disciplinary or just shunned for being an asshole sort of depends on exactly what they said; to take the example in the OP specifically, then assuming they themselves never represent the organization to anyone (they aren’t in sales, customer service, don’t work on the floor where customers will encounter them directly), I’d just shun the person after contradicting them in front of anyone who had heard the original remark.
I would tend to agree with Chronos’ standards. Making racist remarks would not, by itself, be sufficient cause to fire a person. But such a person should not be allowed to hold any position where they supervise or train other employees, have any significant decision making authority that affects other people, or deal with the public. I recognize that as a practical matter, these standards would eliminate most jobs. However, in theory there are jobs which racism would not disqualify a person from doing.
Racism is not acceptale. However, it’s perfectly possible to make a racist statement in ignorance—check out the current threads about the new meanings of the word “thug,” and the people who never got the memo about the shift in meaning. So I wouldn’t fire somebody, especially not for a first offense, but certainly major disciplinary action so that they know that whatever was in their head, the statement they made came across as racist and that it will not be tolerated.
I couldn’t answer the poll - maybe I’m making it too complicated in my head.
Was it a single comment or part of a pattern? Was it a totally failed attempt at humor or a deliberate slur? Private or public? Business or personal venue? Drunk or sober?
A one-time stupid comment - especially if the commenter was trying to be “funny” or “hip” - generally should be treated differently from a serious declaration. On the other hand, if you’re a CEO, you should know better than to try to be “funny” if you’re not. But lower level employees, unless they’re obviously racist assholes, need to be set straight.
For example, my grandfather could have served as the model for Archie Bunker - I grew up hearing every racial and ethnic slur you can imagine. If my parents had not taught me otherwise, I might have assumed that what my grandfather said was normal, and firing me from my first gig at a fast food joint might have been a bit extreme.
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and would opt for education over disciplinary action unless it was unquestionably deliberate and hateful. Calls for instant firing and flogging seems as extreme as demands for apologies (as if coerced apologies have any sincerity in them.) Is there such a thing as common sense any more, or are we a one-size-fits-all-zero-tolerance society?
I’d agree with most of what’s been said here. It comes down to the impact on the job. People have a right to be racist and stupid, but not if it’s affecting their job. And sometimes stupidity can be cured with education so termination isn’t always the only solution.
